I think I just dicovered my roadblock

Discussion in 'Basic Training Principles and Methods' started by pwrhngry, Aug 29, 2005.

  1. Aaron_F

    Aaron_F New Member

    there is a review somewhere with them, might have been a meta-analysis.
    but also Burke 2001, Chromiak 2004, Colker 2000

    Do you want to quote Aagaard

    there is a few others but Im too lazy to hunt them down.

    thats the one I thought you were meaning.  If taking that reference as true, the same latency would happen for both directly after and 1 hour after.  So why does the 1hr after have a much higher response even with 1hour later doseage time.
    Dose + Latency = 2
    1hr + Dose + Latency = 3.5
    (no particular scale)

    um, you were the one who quoted Wolfe saying that

    Changed the direct comparability of some of the data.  

    except it doesnt.  The vast majority of the rencent science shows that having protein compared to no protein around training makes an effect when FASTED.  Even tipton states that.
    I take it you mean the paper by Andereson et al? as Aagaard hasnt many papers as the lead author.  Anderesn compared the isocaloric, but not iso-nitrogenous.  50% extra protein is a big whack, especially when the initial people are consuming lower protein for a novice (98g - 0.6g/lb... on the lower end of the potential range for novices.)

    mmmm milk :)  
    I take it you mean his J Am Cll nutr paper, which sez
    Ie, showed no significant difference between the two groups?
  2. Burke
    Lean mass gains where seen with supplementation?
    The abstract doesn't mention when supplemenation took place, do you know?

    3.4Kg FFM gain with supplementation vs 1.5 without, 7.5 lbs vs 3lbs, not significant. Seems significant to me. The variance of .027 could have been from the hydrostatic testing and or error in skinfold measures, they should have used some other measure for determining like maybe MRI. Also they note themselves the trend was leaning towards supplementation.

    Colker 2000
    :confused: Can you give me a journal?

    But he doesn't say it won't either.

    I doubt the difference between .7 and .6g/lb is going to make a difference at all.

    Yeah I know you love your chocolate milk, which if I recall other comments you've made, you drink when? [​IMG]  

    Yeah I know .05, .05, .05, .05
    I will agree with you on the fact that more studies are needed looking at the differences in fed vs fasted state. If you ever remember those reviews (or meta, not the Nissan one since I have it) I would appreciate you sharing.

    Thanks for sharing Aaron I appreciate it.
  3. Aaron_F

    Aaron_F New Member

    Burke DG, Chilibeck PD, Davidson KS, Candow DG, Farthing J & Smith-Palmer T. (2001)The effect of whey protein supplementation with and without creatine monohydrate combined with resistance training on lean tissue mass and muscle strength. Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab, 11, 349-364

    Colker et al. Effects of Supplemental protien on body composition and muscular strength in healthy athletic male adults. Current Theraputic research 2000;61:19-28

    neither have I... I have said "Theres potential, but its not looking good." and "Doesnt mean it wont, but at this stage it doesnt look overly promising."

    havent had any chocolate milk. I do however have a whey shake in the morning, mainly because I got some free, and also I train at 6am, which is pretty much the fasted state :D and its easy to drink the way I have it currently.

    I will see if I feel energetic enough when I get home. Highly likely not.
  4. Obviously you weren't energetic enough. [​IMG]

    Funny thing though, it seems that you argued for Pre/Post timing in the past. An Old thread I found when digging at something else shows you felt timing was very important. Has the research changed since your posts? I would find that hard to believe since much of the research was done before your posts in that thread.

    Anyway just curious as to what changed your views.
  5. This thread has turned into "battle of the titans" [​IMG]
  6. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    Could agree more!

    Aaron, Dan, we have managed to pick up some of the "trash" you guys threw at us, poor vilains [​IMG]

    Moretury te salutem, Caesar!

    Enough you gladiators, Caesar will not give the thumb, neither up nor down [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
  7. Aaron_F

    Aaron_F New Member

    3.5years is a long time, combined with a ton of research between then and now makes a big difference...

    did you ever think HIT made sense?

    if you go back far enough I would have also argued towards a low fat high carb diet, or even a low carb diet.... but we learn and move on
  8. Well...... [​IMG]

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