I think I just dicovered my roadblock

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pwrhngry

New Member
Hey yall, I have been lifting for about 18mos or so now seriously, and was using waaaaaay too much volume, and had reached a total plateau. Well I got with Aaron F a few days ago and he recommended the Bill Starr 5x5 for some strength gains. (Ijust started it by the way and after putting on some strength, I intend to cycle between that and cycles of HST)
 Well I have been so frustrated because, my gains stalled and I cant seem to work up any DOMS. My diet is super clean, my rest could be better but is not bad. My bodyfat is stoopid low, and I couldnt figure out what the problem is!
 Yesterday I think I figured it out! My form is great, but I noticed that somewhere along the way I have developed this nasty habit of locking out at the top of my movements. Could this be relieving the tension on the muscles enough to rob me of the microtrauma, and thus no gains in strength or growth, and no soreness?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (pwrhngry @ Aug. 29 2005,3:01)]Hey yall, I have been lifting for about 18mos or so now seriously, and was using waaaaaay too much volume, and had reached a total plateau. Well I got with Aaron F a few days ago and he recommended the Bill Starr 5x5 for some strength gains. (Ijust started it by the way and after putting on some strength, I intend to cycle between that and cycles of HST)
Well I have been so frustrated because, my gains stalled and I cant seem to work up any DOMS. My diet is super clean, my rest could be better but is not bad. My bodyfat is stoopid low, and I couldnt figure out what the problem is!
Yesterday I think I figured it out! My form is great, but I noticed that somewhere along the way I have developed this nasty habit of locking out at the top of my movements. Could this be relieving the tension on the muscles enough to rob me of the microtrauma, and thus no gains in strength or growth, and no soreness?
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I don't think you will find this the "roadblock" as you say...

Secondly DOMS isn't necessary for muscle growth, nor is it for strength...

Thirdly sometimes genetics just aren't what they should be ...

Fourth how much cals do you eat for which stats? Do you gain weight, or nothing at all? If you're not gaining weight at all, eat more.

Fifth, on topic now... Locking out is generally not a good thing to do. Not only tention-wise is it less than optimal, but also it is very bad for your tendons to lock out. When locking out, all tension and weight is replaced from the muscle to the tendons... In the long end, when you'll start using bigger weights, that can be verryy bad...
 
totally avoid locking out at all or even getting too close to that point to be on the safe side

and if your gains have stalled, you're eating clean, and you have lower bodyfat, what you need to do is add in more kcals - also, how much protein do you eat/day and do you focus having protein centered around your workouts (pre and post)?
 
Hey colby, I take in usually about 200g of protein a day, give or take. Never more than 250, never less than 180.
 On w/o days I take 2scoops of optimum gold std. both before and after w/ 2 tbsp of honey in the post w/o shake. Thats 48g both before and after w/o.
 I dont know if I mentioned this in my post but I eat about 22-2500 kcals a day on about a 40/40/20, my tendency is to run a little low on carbs though. I eat super clean. No refined carbs at all all whole grains,veggies,fresh fruit. My protein staples are tuna, nonfat cottage cheese, and lots of whey (usually 1 shake w/all of my 5 meals). I drink 11/2 gal+ of water per day.
Heres that pic I was trying to attach:
 
didn't see how much you weigh, or what your bf% is, but blindly seeing the picture and your kcals/day, I would once again say add in more
 
Colby, Im 5'11'' and 150-153pounds I have a pair of accufit2 digital calipers that consistently put me at 3-3.5%. That seemed awfully low so I even called the company and had them talk me through calibrating and proprly measuring, and they say that based on all their data thats what it is. They say their digitals are within 2%
Thanks by the way bro, I appreciate the feedback..
 
looking good but you have to remember that eventually you have to raise your fat% if your trying to mass up. Keeping at constant rate of kcal you only get frustrated
 
pwrhngry

Here's my take for what it is worth:

Go check the grecian proportions for your body type/size, that will give you some goals to achieve. Search for grecian proportions.

Just to give a quick overview, you should be aiming for about 190 - 200 pounds easy with your height.

Some stats could indicate:
18 - 19" biceps, about the same for neck and calves.
25 - 28" thighs.
Try to keep waist same size.
Body fat at 6 - 8% is fairly good year round.

I.O.W. you have to eat more dude, if you wanna grow that is!
Mind you it is not that you don't look good but there is plenty of space to "hang some muscle on" if you know what I mean!

As we say here in Africa, you have to eat more "pap", and "pap" is a word used for corn porridge, which is also used as a staple by the africans not just as a porridge but a stiffer variety with normal food, guess what it is a lean, mean food and packs on the pounds.
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Word of advice, don't take my advice in an offending manner for I was born a bit of a joker, but sure! Check it out with the others as well, you may find the tune stays quite the same.

Another bit of advice, go HST all the way, the strength will come, believe me
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and keep it as simple as possible, stick to the biggies:

SQUAT/DEADLIFTS for legs
DIPS/BENCH for chest
CHINS/ROWS for back
MILITARY PRESSES/CLEAN AND PRESS for shoulders
CURLS/SKULLCRUSHERS for arms, but this is really not required to add on mass, rather as an add on for metabolic stress.

Hope this helps
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Fausto, thank you for your advice, I didnt take it as insulting at all. I am kindof hearing the same thing over and over, EAT! I guess Im just so hesitant because as I mentioned I have really been busting my but for over a year and a half of dedicated,if somewhat misguided lifting and I dont want to negate all my hard work by "choking down the groceries". Can one not become stronger without having to pack on fat? I most certainly want to be much stronger than I am, but I dont want to "pork out" to achieve it.
I already eat around 2500kcal a day which the HST article on nutrition seems to think is the right amount to grow. Where is it all going? I must have the metabolism of a rabid chipmunk!
The one time in my life when I had to experience being "soft" and chubby was during adolescence before my puberty growth spurt, and I had sufficient experience at being "plump" to convince me that it was not for me at all. I wasnt happy in my own skin and consequently, I will never again be in that position.
Thank you, all of you again for any and all tips and advice.
 
2500 kcal per day
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Thats way too low!!

what is your maintanance level? how much do you consume during each training?

I think your real cals should be around 3000 or more. You also mentioned running low on carbs....dont do that :)
 
I cracked the #'s you gave me (151.5 lbs at 3.5bf%) and I got a maintenance level of 2618kcals. If you're eating 2500, then obviously that is not enough. Add in an extra 300kcals a day with cardio (I assume with that low bf% you already do it.) and you will see gains. Even with your super low bf%, I'd say add in 500 kcals per day.

-Colby
 
Hey colby thanks for the help, you guys are fantastic. Ill start eating more. I dont want yall to think I dont listen or take into account all the good stuff yall give me, there is always so much conflicting info though, you know? Like for instance, Im tring to work out a good 5x5 to boost strength gains and every time I see one of the laid out 5x5s its different in some way than the others and all say" dont modify at all" "this is the only way". Im not a total noob or anything, but I am trying to break some overtraining habits and kind of "start from scratch" and it seems like the more I learn, the less I know.lol
 
Hey pwrhngry

I am glad you take advice on readily, not that we expect that what we say is gospel! No ways, always double check, but looks like Colby has cruncghed thenumbers for you, so there I'd follow his advice rather just add 500 cal for now and keep the bodyfat low!
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As I said before, get some goals on, it will give you purpose
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Also, try doing the main HST program and keep things simple, adjust the volume:

15 's - 1 to 2 sets
10's - 2 to 3 sets
5's - 3 sets first week, 2 sets second week
negs same as first 5's.

Then reduce number of exercises, maybe even superset them as you go along keep w/o's to max 1 hour including warmups.

Ciao
 
Hey guys, Isure appreciate all the tips, I have started upping my calories a little so that Im at least consistently hitting 2500+. I also have been reading all I can about 5x5 plans for strength training to get some MORE POWER, as a base then alternate between that(Bill Strarr 5x5) and HST for size and overall dovelopment.
I made a few runs at getting a program worked out and finally settled on the Bill Starr 5x5 dual factor. I put it all down in a post entittled "my 5x5 plan" in the sst section,and I intend to kindd of journal my progression with it over the course of the 9 week program. Please, feel free to take a gander, give feedback, poke fun, etc.(lol)
Thanks again guys, and by the way if anyone ever needs any help cutting, THAT I can do in spades (lol).
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Fausto @ Aug. 31 2005,2:36)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I.O.W. you have to eat more dude, if you wanna grow that is!
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I know this thread has pretty much ran its course but I wanted to second what Fausto said. If you are going to train naturally, you must use food (particularly carbs) to improve the anabolic environment.
 
Bryan

Thanks for that!
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pwrhngry

Forgot to mention one thing, from an article I have been reading and makes a whole lot of sense, IMO Bryan also recommends this and may have eevn written on it, but I seriously can't remember
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From the HST FAQ E-book, Chapter 22.4. Gaining muscle mass:

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Anyway, my point is this, Take your protein without (or with less) carbs immediately after you workout.
This will allow more amino acids to skirt past your enterocytes and liver and make it into the blood stream where they are taken up by skeletal muscle.
Then take your carbs one hour later, which still allows you to take advantage of the metabolic "window" post workout.

Several small meals aren't as important as you might think. You can get the same benefit from eating meals that take a long time to digest (e.g. steak, fiber, and fat). However, in the period immediately surrounding your workout, I would suggest a small meal both before and after.

Ideally they would be liquid meals. Then a big slow digesting meal 1-2 hours later. If you are dieting, many small meals can help retain some mass by preventing acidosis and controlling appetite.

Consistent macronutrient ratios throughout the day are not as important as you might think either. I wouldn't worry too much about it. However, do not compromise on your meals
immediately before and after your workout. These should never be without protein.
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And Paul Cribb (B.H.Sci HMS/AST Director of Research) wrote:

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Progressive sports scientists now understand that the hours surrounding an intense workout are a unique window of opportunity; a time when the presence of certain nutrients will amplify the muscle-building, fat-loss response from exercise.
The key to this nutrient-timing effect is to know when to introduce these nutrients at precisely the right time so that they stimulate cellular anabolic mechanisms that accelerate muscle recovery and growth.

When nutrient timing is followed with precision, research shows that the immediate anabolic response can be as high as 400% [1].

Imagine, a 400% better effect from every workout! Simply by making sure you supply your body with the right nutritional material at the right time.

Reference - 1. J Appl Physiol 88: 386-392, 2000.
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I will post the rest of the article as an attachemnt as it is rather biggish to place here, but it sounds fair and science based.

Bryan - your opinion? :confused:
 
Official announcement: Fausto, our mate from down south, is now officially in HST Nirvana, after being quoted and approved by the Big Boss, Bryan Haycock. ;)

Hehehe
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Batman

I always secretly hoped one day to become an HST expert
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but I don't think I qualify compared to some guys here who have the know how under their belt.

One day though I am seriously contemplating this
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, no...really, to pursue this (exercise physiology/nutrition) as an extra together with the microbiology qualifications, then yes! By all means, I'll accept but only if considered by the board of course, this thing of patting one's own shoulders ain't my cup of tea. :confused:

I guess I am just rumbling, batman but cool point taken, I enjoy your humour
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