HSN considers making prohormone

okay ..I don't want to seem too uninformed..but who is pat arnold and where can I get his products. Is his stuff better than biotests? I don't know about either one of their oral p.h. products and can afford to buy them, but why waste my money if this arnold guy has something better out. Also I think bryan could enlighten us on this area even if he doesn't have a product out yet. Are any of the products worth trying? I can get steroids easily because of my bodybuilding connections, but they are illegal. I am interested in some feedback from you guys. I have a m.d. degree so speak freely and i will try to keep up. Educate me and point in the right direction concerning the current p.h. market. i think having no product , would be better than a half assed one that was more placebo than get go, if you follow my drift.

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (morded @ Aug. 27 2002,5:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">okay ..I don't want to seem too uninformed..but who is pat arnold and where can I get his products. Is his stuff better than biotests? I don't know about either one of their oral p.h. products and can afford to buy them, but why waste my money if this arnold guy has something better out. Also I think bryan could enlighten us on this area even if he doesn't have a product out yet. Are any of the products worth trying? I can get steroids easily because of my bodybuilding connections, but they are illegal. I am interested in some feedback from you guys. I have a m.d. degree so speak freely and i will try to keep up. Educate me and point in the right direction concerning the current p.h. market. i think having no product , would be better than a half assed one that was more placebo than get go, if you follow my drift.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Pat Arnold has introduced most of the innovations in the prohormone market(the original androstenedione, 4-androstenediol, cyclo-dextrin delivery, 1-AD, etc) and supplies much of the raw materials to other companies(including I believe Biotest) via LPJ Research(the parent company of Ergopharm, which is the brand you can buy at the store) Here's a brief Q&amp;A to which I and some others contributed which might help get you started in learning about the subject:
http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=84

You can find plenty of posts by Pat(of varying relevance) on misc.fitness.weights, EliteFitness(as pa1ad), on Bodybuilding.com(PA I think), and the Avant Labs' site(as PAsystem and his original screenname Ama Deus II)

 

can i obtain one of the aforementioned prohormones from one of these labs? I am going for a quick look. Thanks for the info. Any preferences for any particulaR product or stack if money is no object?place or site to locate? Thanks again.

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (morded @ Aug. 27 2002,9:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">can i obtain one of the aforementioned prohormones from one of these labs? I am going for a quick look. Thanks for the info. Any preferences for any particulaR product or stack if money is no object?place or site to locate? Thanks again.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
From reviews I have read (I am a poor student unable to buy them and give a first hand account), these are the best, not in any particular order:

1-AD - Ergopharm
ONE - Avant Labs
ONE+ - Avant Labs

The Biotest reviews are mixed. I haven't heard too much about any other brands (Pinnacle, ##########, etc.).

For the cheapest prices check dpsnutrition, 1fast400 and MassNutrition. I am sure there are more, but these are the ones I buy from.

 

ROFLMAO

I guess you are not allowed to mention a certain Canadian based supplement company, who takes out multi-page &quot;special report&quot; ads doctored to look like a scientific reports in just about every single fitness related magazine, by name! Boy, oh, boy, would I like to know why! I am starting to compile a list of this company's shady business practices, and this looks like a result of one!

Not suprising they like to threaten the &quot;little guy&quot; and are rather litigious.

All the more reason for me to boycott them.

########## ....see it doesn't come up! Amazing!!

 

Thanks little poppa pump. My patients and the nurses call me poppa pump sometimes, jokingly. Thanks for the information. this stuff costs more than steroids!! But at least there is no jail time and broken laws associated with it! Is it better to use one and then maybe an oral 4-ad(if there is one) or do you think the one+ is enough

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (morded @ Aug. 28 2002,06:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Thanks little poppa pump. My patients and the nurses call me poppa pump sometimes, jokingly. Thanks for the information. this stuff costs more than steroids!! But at least there is no jail time and broken laws associated with it! Is it better to use one and then maybe an oral 4-ad(if there is one) or do you think the one+ is enough[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I hear you about the jail time!

ONE+ has 4-AD in it, so I tend to think that would be enough.

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Lil Popa Pump @ Aug. 27 2002,11:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Not suprising they like to threaten the &quot;little guy&quot; and are rather litigious.

All the more reason for me to boycott them.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I know for a fact that certain company WILL indeed become quite litigious at the slightest mention of their name.  It is not &quot;pretty&quot; when it happens.  I'm sure that's why the board is blocking the name.  Trying to keep it clean.

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If you want to really make some money, find something that works that would be legal to sell in Canada.  All of the other prohormones sold in the U.S. are illegal here, so if you can find a loophole in the Health Canada regulation you've got an untapped market of 30 milliion people.  Seriously.

Imagine walking into a GNC and seeing nothing but Methoxy products and protein powder, and little else.  Welcome to your friends up North.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Oh so true.  

 

A topical 4-AD product would be great since Biotest quit making their androsol. It was the first prohormone that i've gotten real results with. It also worked great mixing in some finaplix pellets with it too (a.k.a. finasol). 4-AD is also cheaper than the 1-test crap on the market.

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Pimp C @ Sep. 03 2002,2:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A topical 4-AD product would be great since Biotest quit making their androsol.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
We (Avant Labs -- 4-ADerm) and ErgoPharm (AndroSpray) have topical 4-AD products, and they are both much better formulas than Biotest's isopropyl alcohol only formula.

 

I vote for 1-T transdermal it rocks! This is my four day on One+ and my recovery time is unbelievable. I have taken all most every PH out there and for strength and recovery this beats them all. At less for my body it does.

Muscleman

 

It would great to get a good quality prohormone from a reliable source that does not have the cost of marketing and hype built in.

A topical 1-AD and 4AD stack would work well for a continous stream of juice throughout the day.

Hope it is coming soon.

 

####, let's eliminate costs of R&amp;D and profit, too

 

The feedback seems to place Nordiol equal with 4-AD as far as muscle gains -- a few seem to like it better. The strength gains are not as good, because it isn't androgenic.

The problem is that the raw material costs 4 times as much, so even with a poor profit margin, compared to other products, it is still 2 times as expensive as the 4-AD products.

 

Par,
I'm looking to do a couple of short 2-3 week cycles of Nor a derm once I get my blood work back (need to decide whether to add 4-AD this time around). I'm wondering if the Nor-a-Derm alone will suffice. I have a tendency for MPB, so my vanity will win out for now. Once more of it falls out, I may move to One or One+.

Also, would &quot;In Rage&quot; be advisable preworkout for the increased focus and such? I understand that DHT with intranasal delivery isn't much of an issue due to the short half life.

Any info would be appreciated


Steve

 

I think In-Rage should not be problematic, as far as MPB, assuming it is only used pre-workout -- and it should certainly be excellent for this purpose on a Nordiol only cycle.

 

Thanks Par, I will most likely be starting a 2-3 week Nor-a-Derm cycle mid November and will include In Rage pre workout only.

Steve

 

Anyone know anything about intra-nasal delivery of prohormones. Patrick Arnold has spoke of it's effectiveness before, but wanted to know if anyone had done this?

 

I have used intra-nasal 4-AD for a pre-event stimulus. It worked great. I am not sure if the mucous membranes (or the throat) could handle PH application at the frequency needed to invoke a physical response. But for a pre-workout/pre-game stimulant it is awesome.