What's your opinion of using steroids?

Good post Fire.

People take illegal steroids for a variety of reasons. As long as they are physically mature males who are willing to accept the physiological, psychological and legal ramifications of using them, and do not cause a burden on society, I could care less. I wouldn't for the simple reason that I have way too much too lose and adding an inch, maybe, to my arms is not worth the risk.

Anyway, gotta get back to my crack pipe! :)
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I gotta say this. This is one of the most tired topics I have ever seen in my life. Steroids and their legality are a non-issue considering they will remain illegal as long as any of us live. And seriously, anyone with a little cash and some balls can get them, so they ARE available.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (BIZ @ Sep. 19 2004,5:31)]I gotta say this. This is one of the most tired topics I have ever seen in my life. Steroids and their legality are a non-issue considering they will remain illegal as long as any of us live. And seriously, anyone with a little cash and some balls can get them, so they ARE available.
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I agree to a point. Concering legality I think there's more of chance of getting most drugs legalized than most people think, though it's still slim. I also think it's appropiate to respond to the "Holy cow, if you do [insert illicit substance] your life will end, your insides will melt, you kids will start selling their bodies on the street to support your addiction, war will break out, and think of what will happen to professional sports..., etc" posts with more reasoned responses.
 
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Quote[/b] (Aaron_F @ Feb. 22 2003,2:00)]Women are getting T as well now, to improve their sex drive. But men aint allowed it for the same reason..?
double standard.
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Hiya,

I haven't read the entire thread yet, so maybe this gets clarified on subsequent pages...if so, sorry for the redundant post.

Testosterone IS prescribed to men for improve their sex drive. I personally know a woman whose husband is on HRT for extrememly low test levels. No, you can't go to the local drug store and pick it up, but neither can women. Now, maybe his test levels are so ridiculously low that we would have to atrophy away to nothng before our doctors would allow the replacement therapy. So maybe the medical community has not gotten hip to the fact that even a slight natural decrease should be addressed like they apparently are in women, but let's not say that test is not allowed for men when it is.

Brak
 
Heh-heh, I just found this thread...didn't realize it had been dead for a couple months...Bored out of my skull tonight.
 
I was meaning that various doctors are prescribing T in females without any functional 'deficiency' where as in men, they have to be below the 'normal' range before they are even considered, even if for that individual they are well below normal (if at 20 you are 1400mg/dl* and then at 40 you are 400 you are classified as 'normal' even tho your test has dropped signficantly...)




*dunno if its the right measure, cant be bothered to look it up
 
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Quote[/b] (Aaron_F @ Oct. 25 2005,10:31)]I was meaning that various doctors are prescribing T in females without any functional 'deficiency' where as in men, they have to be below the 'normal' range before they are even considered, even if for that individual they are well below normal (if at 20 you are 1400mg/dl* and then at 40 you are 400 you are classified as 'normal' even tho your test has dropped signficantly...)
*dunno if its the right measure, cant be bothered to look it up
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True. I think one of the reasons behind this is that falling T levels in older men is considered 'normal.' So are degenerating joints though, and we take steps to combat that. It is a classic double standard, fed more by apathy than anything else. People don't want to think things through, like asking what would happen if through diet, exercise and supplementation we helped older men maintain T levels similar to thoseof a 20 or 30 year old man?

I know one person I talked to argued that such hormone therapies weren't given out because older men are at an increased risk for heart disease and T is generally seen as a bad thing in that regard. I would say the general sedentary nature of most people's lives and poor eating habits and falling T levels that are never addressed are more the culprit, and that a full on program to maintain cardiovascular health and healthy hormone levels that's started when the levels start to decline would probably be more beneficial than anyone could imagine. Starting it later may indeed be too late, but that's not a problem with the therapy necessarily, just its timing combined with other factors.
 
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Quote[/b] (xahrx @ Oct. 26 2005,5:43)]True. I think one of the reasons behind this is that falling T levels in older men is considered 'normal.' So are degenerating joints though, and we take steps to combat that.
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So are declining estrogen levels for women, but htey get hormonal treatment if desired.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]It is a classic double standard, fed more by apathy than anything else. People don't want to think things through, like asking what would happen if through diet, exercise and supplementation we helped older men maintain T levels similar to thoseof a 20 or 30 year old man?
I know one person I talked to argued that such hormone therapies weren't given out because older men are at an increased risk for heart disease and T is generally seen as a bad thing in that regard. I would say the general sedentary nature of most people's lives and poor eating habits and falling T levels that are never addressed are more the culprit, and that a full on program to maintain cardiovascular health and healthy hormone levels that's started when the levels start to decline would probably be more beneficial than anyone could imagine. Starting it later may indeed be too late, but that's not a problem with the therapy necessarily, just its timing combined with other factors.
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most of the information around heart disease and testosterone administration is well over blown. ANd there is a fair difference between HRT in subjects with low test and using higher doses (and orals at that) on normal young males...
 
I'm neither for or against them.

Fact - they do help build more muscle faster than not using them.
Fact - they do have health consequences, just like anything else you put into your body.
Fact - they are illegal here so I can't use them.

Just proper TRT from a physician in the correct dosage for my body to give me a normal test level for a man my age has helped me achieve great results so I'll be sticking with that.
 
I think I'll just drop in and remind some of you that PH's are illegal now, so don't get your hopes up for them either.
And knock off the Pi*&%$#ng contests guys, this is a discussion group.

Lars, PLEASE post that article if you can find it, before I go in for HRT!
 
I have a big problem with people using steroids for "cheating", or some meathead wanting to get huge, but I can understand older men using it, even just to get things back to "normal", even if it is high normal, if they can't get TRT, and I don't have a problem with anyone using it safely, responsibly and in moderation, but I personally workout for my own satisfaction, to challenge myself and to see how big and strong I can grow. From that point of view, taking steroids would be cheating myself out of the satisfaction I get from looking in the mirror and knowing I've earned the muscles I have naturally. Whenever I hear of a lifter taking steroids, even in the past, I just don't have the same respect for them than if I knew they were completely natural their whole lives.

But as I get older, if I find I'm having health problems or problems maintaining, and a doc won't prescribe TRT, I'll have no problem taking moderate amounts of T in order to get myself to being a young man again
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I agree with ya man, and I would want to if I couldn't get HRT. On the plus side of legal anabolics is that they are testing you for everything and monitoring your estrogen levels as well. I've found out that many of the symptoms can be caused by excess estrogen as well as low test. Cool thought...anti E's are available without a script.
 
Yeah the man-boobs and all that stuff is caused by too much E, not a pleasant side-effect your trying to get muscly, hey Quad have you tried Tribex Tribulus or something like that, I hear they do work for people with low T, only boost up to a normal level though.
 
Yes, I've tried several trib products and no, they do not work whatsoever. Studies recently done also show this to be true.
As for diet and exersize keeping your test levels and all up like a young man, if that worked forever, I wouldn't be feeling like a flat tire most of the time. I've really put out in that department, and it seems like I'm on an eternal plateau, but losing ground regardless. HST worked at first for hypertrophy and strength, but even that has leveled out. Sooner or later the Grim Reaper gets a bit closer, so I felt like it's time for a new strategy, as Vagrant did. Legally, of course.
 
They are illegal right here and now. They carry risks. They WORK.

I will possibly consider them someday if I hit a ceiling, but for now I am pretty excited to see how far I can go using only what my manly balls can produce!
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To be honest, I will probably use them eventually during a bulk. I already used Winstrol back in 05 while cutting down. Using steroids while cutting can allow you to cut a lot more effectively without losing muscle mass. Did I need to? Probably not. I wasn't very big when I started cutting. Has it made a huge impact on my physique? Obviously not, seeing as how I was cutting.

The problem I see with steroids is weak-minded "bros" who get into the mindset that they can only make gains when they are on a cycle. These people tend to let their training slip when they aren't on a cycle, and only really push themselves while cycling. This tends to lead to longer cycles, more frequent cycles, less time off, etc etc, all of which is a bad idea if you are going to use AAS "responsibly" if that is possible.
 
If you are using it`s ok...it`s part of the game. But I dont understand why do you want to use if you dont compete
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(Tcup @ Oct. 10 2006,16:14)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">If you are using it`s ok...it`s part of the game. But I dont understand why do you want to use if you dont compete
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Steroids aren't just for pushing past you genetic potential to get massive. They can help you reach your goals faster. Lots of things are possible by tipping the balance of your body toward anabolism. Problem is people often use steroids, in my opinion, to compensate for a lack of discipline or effort elsewhere. So in other words they'd use to offset the fact that their diet isn't up to speed rather than use to enhance an already dialed in diet.

Lot's of people think you shouldn't use until you get near your genetic limits, I disagree these days even though I used to think that way too. I think people who can't reliably set and achieve goals naturally shouldn't use. It's your ability to set and reach goals, and in so doing demonstrating your ability to maintain the required discipline over your diet and training to reach those goals, that count in my opinion. Not how much muscle you've managed to pack on naturally. Any idiot after a bunch of mindless trial and error can get big.
 
I agree, I think telling people not to use until they are near their genetic potential is stupid. You don't know what a person's goals are. What if I want to be able to deadlift 600 lbs at 150 lbs BW? Getting massive won't help much there, will it?
 
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