Discussion in 'Strength-Specific Training (SST)' started by imported_ilFacell, Feb 22, 2004.

  1. For all of you strength guru's out there, can offer some of us size-based trainee's some tips on how to include some strength practices in our HST cycle? After all more weight = more myotrauma :)
  2. Insane_Man

    Insane_Man New Member

    Yeah I hope to include so SST at the end of my next cycle, which will probably be 2 weeks of 10s and 2 weeks of 5s followed by some form of SST.
  3. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator Staff Member

    I would suggest that you begin your strength training cycle at the end of the 5s, assuming you are injury free at that time.
  4. I'd love to see a hybrid HST/ SST system evolve. I've been thinking about this a bit lately because I'm considering getting back into powerlifting competition, but am loving HST too much. I also need to up my LBM to an optimal level, but want to 'keep the engine revving' for the day I decide to do the switch. Unfortunately, even when I was competing I didn't have much in the way of clues about PL training (I more or less just used sheer enthusiasm and a bastardised HIT routine), and I haven't moved in those circles since, so I wouldn't really be able to venture much informed opinion. But I will chuck out a few ideas for others to slaughter at will

    1) Obviously performing the lifts throughout the standard HST cycle is vital; good technique is fundamental to PL. Maybe start by "dedicating a day" (extremely loose term) to each lift, where in addition to your normal HST routine you possibly do some extra sets/ appropriate variations of these exercises. Assistance exercises could receive a similar treatment. You could dedicate, for example, the second of your three bench press days to some sort of 'dynamic effort'/ explosive regime.

    2) Also, although I realise that HST is NOT periodised, I think that the rep schemes used resemble a periodised regime enough to integrate some of the principles of periodisation. This is where I tag in someone smarter than me.
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I'm not smarter, I just have good timing. ;) I like that idea of a day dedicated to strength. You could take the final RM workout for each rep range and go all out on the big 3 lifts with extra sets and max effort. Since you'll be starting the next rep range well under max effort the following Monday, fatigue and DOMS shouldn't be a problem. And Mr. Haycock mentioned in the original HST outline that he used 15, 10, and 5 as a guideline to keep it simple. With that in mind, you could go this route: Week 1- 15RM and go all out on the "big three" lifts on the third and last 15 rep workout. Week 2- 12RM and all out on the third and last work out, and so on. This way you'd get one really heavy day every week in each rep range- 15, 12, 10, 8, 5, and 3, with 2 submaximum workouts between each. But I'd keep it to those 3 big lifts to avoid burning out, and no more than 3 sets total on those lifts as well. But heck, now that I think about it, that seems like a lot of heavy lifting with a lot of frequency. [​IMG] I told you I wasn't smarter.
  6. Great post. I wouldn't worry too much about the high volume/ effort/ frequency thing towards the end too much; if you switch it up to 6/ week or twice a days near the end, that should allow some leeway.
    I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest a sample workout. Just throwing out ideas, any suggestions/ criticisms actively welcomed.
    'Core HST routine' - These exercises to be performed each training, except during the 5s & 3s, when they have their own day:
    1-leg standing calf raise
    wide grip chins
    behind-the-neck shoulder press
    barbell curl
    skullcrusher/ lying triceps extension
    1 set of each during 15s & 12s, 2 sets during 10s & 8s, 3 sets during 5s, (4 sets during 3s!?).
    Each mini cycle would be broken down as follows:
    day 1 - Deadlift dynamic day (see below). No squatting or benching, instead do an alternative exercise for each (eg. leg xt and dips) but do extra sets and/ or a dynamic effort on assistance exercises
    day 2 - day off; no training until the 5s, when you will perform the core routine above. This is to accomodate the increased demands on the body near the end of the cycle.
    day 3 - Squat & bench dynamic day. No DL, but perform assistance exercises (eg. grip & trap work) and rows.
    day 4 - No training until the 5s; then perform core routine
    day 5 - DL, SQ & BP max effort day.
    day 6 - no training until 5s; then perform core routine
    Thus each of the 3 powerlifts are performed twice per week. On the 'off' day for each exercise, an alternative exercise is performed and/ or assistance exercises are emphasised.
    Once per week all three movements are performed as a max effort. This occurs on the last day of each minicycle (i.e. the last day of the 15s, last day of the 12s, and so on).
    Once per week, until the end of the 8s, a lift is performed dynamically, as an explosive movement in sets of 2 with exactly 30 seconds rest between sets until the target reps are reached. These should concentrate on good, explosive technique. For example, for the benchpress during the 12s, you would load up your required weight for the day, and rather than do 1 set of 12 reps with it, you would do 6 sets of 2 reps, with 30 seconds rest in between. Bench and squat would be done on the same day, DL on the other. After you've finished the 8s, drop the explosive work.
  7. Paul Brewer-Jensen

    Paul Brewer-Jensen New Member


    Why not continue a regular HST cycle up to a 1RM and beyond with a little more tension and volume via negatives? If you are drug free, then injury should not be a huge concern. Also, and I realize this is heretical talk, you could play the frequency by feel. If you feel you need more rest between workouts then I say take it. Just as long as the weights are continuing to go up then the cycle is good.

    I like doing 10 to 15 negatives with a little bit more than the one rep max for a given workout. I can feel the micro trauma immediately after the set of negatives. I recommend doing exercises that you can do negatives with, and/or having two reliable training partners.

  8. Baoh

    Baoh New Member

    There has to be an SST before it be connected to HST.

    There are several strength routines. They do not, IMO, constitute SST, or -at least- what SST "should" be. The closest template is probably WSB, but that includes some non-SST flotsam.
  9. Aaron_F

    Aaron_F New Member

    I think WSB is approximately teh best current concept, or more specifically conjugate periodization is the best method of strength gains.
    Whether there would be any differences between other variations on conjugate adn westside is anotehr story, but in terms of research probably enver likely to happen.

    I think the way lyles PL training is heading is a good compromise, but then again probably because that was teh way I was heading :) especially utilizing variations of auto-regulation of loading, and ME exercises for weak points.
    Working in the exercises to specific weakpoints is the goal, adn difficult to perfect on ones own.

    But also, novices also need to understand thre is no point getting into the depth of conjugate and various westside style concepts like Micro cycles of band tension, % this that and the next thing, as they are not important in the overall picture, but merely the icing on teh cake. many get caught up in needing 50% of your 1rm for speed days and sets have to be done in 3seconds, without understanding that their technique has gone to the dumps. Nor that they speed box squat wider than their actual squatting is done. Adn ME box exercises should mimic the free weight technique, but get caught up in all the little pieces without looking at hte overall.

    Ah, rant ends

    Im sick and doing thesis work that I do not want to be doing.

    In terms of mixibng strength specifc trainign to hypertrophy trainign you will always have a compromise. Two goals that while require training with weights to achieve them have a slightly different path to take.
    You can be strong and big, but you can be big without being 'strong' and strong without being 'big'

    I think I would tack on an extra 2 week cycle on the end of the normal period (after negs or really after 5s) and do multiple sets of 2-3rm, worked out via prileprins table and follow that by a couple of drop sets. Do limited volume and reduce the frequency somewhat. After that start abck into SD adn go into the 15s. DOnt be surprised if you dont carry all teh strength over into the next cycle, but there should be some gain each time.

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