RM's

Discussion in 'Strength-Specific Training (SST)' started by il_dottore, Jan 21, 2008.

  1. il_dottore

    il_dottore New Member

    What are your 5-10-15RM's related to your 1RM for:
    upper body: Bench -  Row - Military press (average)
    lower body: Squat - Deadlift (average)

    Rydin & Maurice say:
    U.B.: 5RM 89% - 10RM 76% - 15RM 65%
    L.B.: 5RM 94% - 10RM 87% - 15RM 75%

    So L.B. stronger than U.P.

    I have an opposite situation:
    U.B.: 5RM 88% - 10RM 75% - 15RM 64% (more or less the same as R. & M.)
    L.B.: 5RM 80% - 10RM 64% - 15RM 50% (a big difference from R. & M.)

    Am I weaker in L.B. or you have results like mine?
    What about you?
     
  2. XFatMan

    XFatMan New Member

    My averages are:
    5s = 86% of 1 RM
    10s = 74% of 1 RM
    15s = 66% of 1 RM

    I have only averages for all compound lifts - not separated by upper / lower body.
     
  3. EL_VIEJO

    EL_VIEJO New Member

    I used 87%, 75%, 65% for both upper and lower body in my 1st cycle to calculate the weights I should be using without actually doing the RMs. These percentages are also good for estimating what your 1RM MIGHT be. It's a nice way to estimate your 1RM actually doing a 1RM. Other than that what good are these percentages? It makes no difference whether your 15RM is 65% of your 1RM or 50% of your 1RM as long as your are progressing and moving more weight than you did on your last cycle. The bottom line is, IMHO, that these percentages are not goals to seek, but merely a method of roughly calculating various RM's.
     
  4. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

  5. il_dottore

    il_dottore New Member

    What I want to know is if I'm weak on Lower Body.
    What I see from your answer is that 2 of you can handle 5 reps of squat or deadlift with 86/87% of 1 RM, it's not the 94% of Rydin & Maurice but if a lot more than my 5 reps with only 80% of 1RM

    So I'd like to understand if my situation is normal or if I must do somethings to improve my L.B. strenght
     
  6. EL_VIEJO

    EL_VIEJO New Member

    <div>
    (il_dottore @ Jan. 22 2008,06:04)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">What I want to know is if I'm weak on Lower Body.
    What I see from your answer is that 2 of you can handle 5 reps of squat or deadlift with 86/87% of 1 RM, it's not the 94% of Rydin &amp; Maurice but if a lot more than my 5 reps with only 80% of 1RM

    So I'd like to understand if my situation is normal or if I must do somethings to improve my L.B. strenght</div>
    How much can you bench press, squat, and deadlift in lbs. or kilos? Not how many reps as a % of 1RM or anything like that. Just the actual poundages.

    I'm disproportionately weak in the squat and deadlift. How do I know this? I can bench more than I can Squat. I never did DL's before my 1st HST cycle and started with very low weight. My strength increases have really gone up in the DL and I now DL more lbs than I can BP. However, in the squat I'm still using less weight than in the BP. I'm now squatting as deep as I can and I'm confident that I'll soon be able to squat more than I BP. Especially if I continue the 5x5 program that I just started where I'm squatting 3 times per week.

    So, is your lower body weaker than your upper body? If you can't squat and deadlift more than you can bench press, than the answer is yes. What's the remedy for this? More squats and deadlifts.

    Here are the goals that I'm currently working towards: Bench Press 1.5 X bodyweight, Squat 2 X B/W, Deadlift 2 X B/W.
     
  7. About RM's...

    My 10 RM for deadlift is 195 lbs -- just reached that last night, btw. But, that was 195x10x3sets, followed by the remainder of my workout.

    If I were just doing one set of 10 deadlifts, and didn't have to worry about energy or fatigued muscles for the rest of the day, I'm sure I could do more than 195 -- perhaps 205 or 210.

    So, what % of my 1 rm is my 10 rm? It depends on what you consider my 10 rm to be.
     
  8. il_dottore

    il_dottore New Member

    My BW= 64Kg

    Squat 1RM= 100Kg (1,5xBW) - 5RM= 80Kg
    Dead lift 1RM= 143Kg (2,2xBW) - 5RM= 115Kg
    Bench 1RM= 70Kg (1,1xBW) - 5RM= 62Kg
    Row 1RM= 87Kg (1,3xBW) - 5RM= 75Kg
    M. Press 1RM=48 Kg (0,75xBW) - 5RM= 42Kg

    Yesterday I starded my 2° HST cycle and I added 8Kg on 5s of squat and deadlift; 4Kg on 5s of bench; row stay the same; 2Kg on 5s of M. press and recalculated 10s and 15s according to the % I know.
     
  9. il_dottore

    il_dottore New Member

    <div>
    (etothepii @ Jan. 22 2008,10:45)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">About RM's...

    My 10 RM for deadlift is 195 lbs -- just reached that last night, btw. But, that was 195x10x3sets, followed by the remainder of my workout.

    If I were just doing one set of 10 deadlifts, and didn't have to worry about energy or fatigued muscles for the rest of the day, I'm sure I could do more than 195 -- perhaps 205 or 210.

    So, what % of my 1 rm is my 10 rm? It depends on what you consider my 10 rm to be.</div>
    For me is not correct do more than 1 set with the same weight.
    I follow 2 ways:
    1) 1st set at max (example: 100Kg 5 reps) then I lower the weight enough to do other 5 reps and then I lower the weight again, enough to do other 5 reps
    2) 1st set at 80/85% of my real load (example: 80/100Kg 5 reps), 2nd set at real load (100Kg) and if I have to do more sets I reduce the weight as above

    This is a better way to load muscles (Ian King - Get buffed! pag 53) and you Know what your real RM's are
     
  10. EL_VIEJO

    EL_VIEJO New Member

    <div>
    (il_dottore @ Jan. 22 2008,12:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">My BW= 64Kg

    Squat 1RM= 100Kg (1,5xBW) - 5RM= 80Kg
    Dead lift 1RM= 143Kg (2,2xBW) - 5RM= 115Kg
    Bench 1RM= 70Kg (1,1xBW) - 5RM= 62Kg
    Row 1RM= 87Kg (1,3xBW) - 5RM= 75Kg
    M. Press 1RM=48 Kg (0,75xBW) - 5RM= 42Kg

    Yesterday I starded my 2° HST cycle and I added 8Kg on 5s of squat and deadlift; 4Kg on 5s of bench; row stay the same; 2Kg on 5s of M. press and recalculated 10s and 15s according to the % I know.</div>
    If these are your actual 1RM's, then how do you figure that your lower body is weaker than your upper body? Your DL is impressive, 143k (315lbs) @ 64k (141lbs) body weight. As you point out, that's 2.2 X BW. I'd be real happy to be able to do that. But it seems odd to me that your DL can be 43% more than your squat. Has anybody else here seen such a difference between squat and DL poundages?

    BTW, here's a link to some interesting weightlifting performance standards: http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/StrengthStandards.html
     
  11. il_dottore

    il_dottore New Member

    <div>
    (EL_VIEJO @ Jan. 22 2008,15:37)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">If these are your actual 1RM's, then how do you figure that your lower body is weaker than your upper body? Your DL is impressive, 143k (315lbs) @ 64k (141lbs)  body weight.  As you point out, that's 2.2 X BW. I'd be real happy to be able to do that. But it seems odd to me that your DL can be 43% more than your squat. Has anybody else here seen such a difference between squat and DL poundages?

    BTW, here's a link to some interesting weightlifting performance standards: http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/StrengthStandards.html</div>
    I know that link and based on it I'm &quot;Intermediate&quot; for bench, press and squat and between &quot;Intermediate&quot; and &quot;Advanced&quot; for deadlift. I Know I'm very strong in deadlift

    ...so I should say I'm in the &quot;norm&quot;
     
  12. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    Hmmm, using that chart makes me VERY happy. I wonder if there are any others out there? I can't be THAT far along on a chart designed for younger guys. It told the truth on my squats tho...need to work them up.
     
  13. XFatMan

    XFatMan New Member

    Makes me very SAD. I'm such a newbie weakling! That's why I'm currently doing an SST cycle.
     
  14. adb1x1

    adb1x1 Member

    I have a real issue with most of the 1 rep max calculators and one-size fits-all percentages like this.

      There are too many differences in individuals to make these things anything more than statistical guess-timations.

     Seems there is never a qualifier like &quot;we tested 1000 lifters and found these calculations to be accurate&quot;. Or even &quot;accurate with 75% of them&quot;. Or what the background of these lifters is (are they new, been lifting for 20 years, etc)

     At best they are statistical guesses.

     I use the method described by Charles Ridgely in articles posted at Bodybuilding.com (ok, I do read them sometimes, but not often) and also presented in the &quot;Setting up a Hypertrophy Specific Training Cycle&quot; ebook, which uses two sets of a given exercise to derive the slope and intercept point for the individual. Then weights for each rep range are calculated.

     Of course more than two points would make this method more accurate, but then fatigue and other factors would start to affect accuracy. Two sets seem to be a good compromise.  

     It is also 'individual'. I've helped a few others calculate rep ranges this way, and I've noted very definite trends among these different individuals.

     For example, comparing the slope for the exercises in my workout with my sons, it's easy to see that he can do more weight at higher reps than I can, but I can do more weight in the lower rep ranges (the 'slope' of the line plotted between the two points of the test sets have a higher angle for me than for him). Midway in the 10's I begin to go beyond him in the weight I can handle, but he typically handles more weight in the 15's.

     This has been borne out in quite a few HST cycles.

     I have found this method to be very accurate and much easier than trying to find the ranges by attempting to zero in on them during test sessions.

     I have little faith in rep max calculators or percentages that do not consider individual differences.
     
  15. EL_VIEJO

    EL_VIEJO New Member

    <div>
    (adb1x1 @ Jan. 23 2008,13:53)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I have a real issue with most of the 1 rep max calculators and one-size fits-all percentages like this.</div>
    The 1RM calculators serve a useful purpose. You don't have to risk injury to get an idea of what your 1RM is. The strength standards are good because everybody wants to know how they compare with others. You are correct when you say that these are just guesstimates and are not carved in stone, but it's nice to have some sort of reference point when setting goals. I do believe that these standards came from some studies, but don't quote me.
     

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