Need help getting started with HST

[kingp]

Hello everyone. I have just stumbled across this HST site, and I like the sounds of it. I have been reading and reading and reading the last couple of days, and now I'd like to know if you guys would help me set up a HST program for myself.
Specifically, which exercises to use, how many sets, etc. I work out at a 24hr nautilus, and while there are often alot of people there, I train alone. I don't mind asking people to spot me, but would hate to have to ask people constantly to stop their workout to help me with mine.
I have a bit of a sore shoulder (most likely from over training), so I plan on taking a few days off to plan my HST workouts, and find my *RM's, then I will do my Strategic Deconditioning. I hope to do Abs and 30 minutes of this treadmill thing at the gym on my off days (unless this is not advised). I'm 32m 6ft 185lbs (I've lost 40 lbs over the last year switching to a vegan diet). I do plan to supplement my protein with the primer/driver combo , and SPI (soy protein isolate) and possibly some creatine. Of course, the areas I want to work most are my chest and arms. (Like Ren, I too would like to have "huge pectoral muscles" , hehe).
Hope you guys can offer some insight, because the more I read on this site, the less I feel that I understand about weight training, heh.
Thanks, and I hope this is posted in the right place,
Patrick

 

[mikeh]

kingp,

Welcome to the forum.

[QUOTE}kingp, Mar. 24 2003,8:53, Specifically, which exercises to use[/QUOTE]

These are from FAQ

Quote[/b] ]help me set up a HST program for myself

Quote[/b] ]

Setting up the cycle

Calkid summary

Specifically, which exercises to use

Selecting exercises

how many sets

How many sets

I plan on taking a few days off to plan my HST workouts and find my *RM's,
then I will do my Strategic Deconditioning.

Sounds great , you're on the right track

 

[kingp]

Is there something not so good about doing flat bench? (hard on rotator cuffs or something?) I see "slight incline" mentioned more than flat bench. The gym I work out at has a bunch of flat benches and a few incline benches, but only one bench that has an adjustable height (to get a slight incline?), so should I just go with a flat bench or an incline bench?
I was thinking of doing flat bench, and incline barbell press for my two chest exercises (although there are alot of nice machines at my gym).
What is the purpose of a straight curl bar? is there an advantage compared to the bars that have those bends in them?
I noticed alot of people mentioning they weren't satisfied with the 15, 10, 5, negative set-up....... I am not sure if I understand on the calculator thing how it says 15rm 1-6 , 10rm 1-6, 5rm 1-6 , then just one column for negs. I figure 15rm = 2 weeks 10rm = 2 weeks, 5rm = 2weeks , then I could just drop the negatives (I feel you really should have a spotter to help with negs.)? Making my setup = a 6 week cycle?
Thoughts?

 

[jkismul]

to get a decline bench, you could set one side of the bench up on something(solid) that's in the gym. if possible.

many people here prefer dips to benches for pec-developement. dips and some incline bench or something.

the straight curl bars will keep your hands supinated(palms up) through the curl, thus involving the biceps more. some people can't/shouldn't do this exercise due to pain/twitching in the underarms, and should therefore go with the EZ-curl bars.(those with bends in them)

there are a few threads about what to do on the negs without a spotter, so i'll do it short. people tend to do the exercises they can in a negative fashion. usually dips and chins.

for other exercises, they use their 5RM max(the max from the previous microcycle, not the current one) and some people recommend increasing the weight on exercises where you can.
but do not go to failure.

 

[kingp]

Ummm... don't know where the decline comment comes from, I never mentioned one. I have a few at the gym I work out at.
The problem I forsee with dips is the few sets involved. I'm strong enough to do a few sets of dips, but don't have any way to weight my dips.
I'm having trouble deciding if I should just do flat bench and incline bench or flat bench and incline presses with dumbells.
(BTW - I don't know if this is correct- are barbells just the big 45 pound bars (or any longer bar you can put weights on for that matter), and dumbells are all the small weights on a bar you can hold with one hand?) That has been really confusing me, hehe.
please excuse my ignorance,
Patrick

 

[Calkid]

I really feel (as I'm sure Bryan also does) that the only chest exercises you need are dips and incline bench press. I'd personally recommend that incline to be about 45 degrees, so use the adjustable bench.

As to dips, I know 24 hour fitness has these, so use a Dip Assist machine to remove weight from yourself, and when you need to add weight, rest a dumbbell on the back of one leg and cross your other leg under it.

Barbells are indeed those long, 45-lb. bars. If you want to use dumbbells too that's fine, I personally prefer them as well. The one thing you need to remember is that in using dumbbells you have to add weight in greater increments (w/ barbell you can add 5 lbs at once, dumbbells at least 10 pounds overall). So in order to avoid starting a microcycle too light, I repeat a load for one workout. I just punch in 2.5 pounds into the HST calculator, and round down when it says 47.5, etc. Voila, repeating weights

-Calkid

 

[kingp]

Yes 24 hr has the gravitron machine which assist my dips, but as I mentioned, dips just don't seem practical for me there. I can easily do 15 dips, but adding weight to my dips can prove difficult. The dip machine there doesn't have alot of room around the foot area because of the assist thing. Plus people love that dang gravitron machine so getting to it can be a pain at times. That is the only dip machine they have as well.

So, which exercise should I do to replace dips and to do along with incline bench. (the incline benchs are probably right around 45 degrees.) I will most likely use the long barbell at least for the first cycle.

My set-up for now looks this way -

legs-
leg press
leg curls

chest-
?? (what goes here?)
incline bench

back-
lat pull downs
seated row

traps-
shrugs

shoulders-
shoulder press
lateral raise
rear delt

biceps-
curls

triceps-
tricep push downs

calves-
calf raises

How many sets should I do for each?

 

[Calkid]

Start with one set of each for your first cycle. If you find you're always energized and can handle more volume, up it to two for your second cycle.

Back to chest, though. I'm really a big fan of dips. 24 Hour Fitness really doesn't have a single non-graviton dipping station? That seems a little ridiculous. BTW, I've gone as high as a 40-lb dumbbell on a leg and that was plenty comfy.

-Calkid

 

[kingp]

Only one set of everything on my first cycle? Cycle meaning- the whole 6 week deal right? Argh..... I'll be in and out of the gym in like 20 minutes, ok maybe 30. ugh, I'd really like to do more. 2 weeks of 15reps, 2 weeks of 10 reps, and 2 weeks of 5 reps. ?

Do shoulders get three different exercises because they are used in so many diff. lifts?

Yep, 24hr here at my spot has one gravitron dip/pullup station, right in front by the desk, the ab stuff, right in the hot spot of the whole gym, so it gets a lot of attention. There are three places to do pull ups, but thats the only dip spot. I have a dip station thing at home, but would hate to do my dips and then ride 20 minutes to the gym and continue my workout, heh.

How about for bench I do incline then decline bench?

and are lat pull downs (dunno about in front of the head or behind? ) ok instead of chinups?

I truly appreciate your guys patience with helping me set up a nice workout plan, my shoulders almost good to go, so I wanna get my rep max's starting in a few days. I should definitely have a spotter for getting my max's correct?

 

[kingp]

What a helpless newbie I must come across as eh?

heh.

 

[Calkid]

Don't worry about it. In this forum (basic training principles) anything goes. So basically you're allowed really n00b-y as long as you post it in here

Okay then. Decline bench will do a decent job of mimicking chest dips, so that's fine.

As to shoulder, think about it in terms of the different sections of deltoid. There's front, middle, and back (anterior, medial and posterior for the scientifically inclined), and you want to make sure each sees some action. Incline bench will hit the front ones no prob, so you can probably drop shoulder press. Side laterals cover the middles, and rear delt covers...(of all things) rear delt, so it looks like your shoulder routine is good to go.

Lat pull downs are fine as a chin replacement. I'd take them to at least your chin.

As to volume...seriously, I know sometimes it feels weird to be doing so little, but it works so well.

If you have any other questions, ask away. Also let's make sure your diet is in order, so why don't you toss that up here too.

-Calkid

 

[kingp]

Ok then, for chest I'm goin to do Incline bench and then Decline bench. I'm going to drop shoulder press. Thats going to leave me with 12 exercises. Sheesh, I'm going to be hungry for more when I'm only doing one set of each thing. Especially bench, bi's and tri's. I can add some more sets in my second 6 week cycle?

Do you see any problem with adding 30 minutes of the eliptical trainer / treadmill thing (precor 544 crossramp) and ab work on my days in between? Lift monday, wednesday, and friday, then do abs and precor thing on tuesday, thursday, and saturday.

Now be easy on me with my diet, heh. I'm vegan for nearly a year now. I went from 225lbs to 185 lbs (I'm 6ft) of the last year. Pretty much 5 lbs a month I've dropped. I truly believe the fat and cholestorol of the dairy products was the culprit. I haven't eaten cheese (or any dairy) for nearly a year now.
I know, I know, your saying, I'll never get the protein..... I'm going to order some vege fuel SPI (soy protein isolate) 35 grams of protein a serving very shortly. I figure 10 days of SD after finding my *RM's will give me enough time to obtain the protein powder. I will be taking that twice a day. I will also get primer/driver as soon as those issues with it clear up. (These web sites say May 1st?) But, until then I'm thinking protein bars and protein shakes they sell at 24hr before and after workouts. Then maybe next cycle I'll start considering creatine also (never touched the stuff yet).

opinons always appreciated, hopefully someday, someway I can reciprocate,

Patrick

 

[Calkid]

Vegan...? Oy vey...

As long as you're getting the calories and the protein it should work. Good luck.

-Calkid

 

[Mindwraith]

They definately need a machine that will add weight to dips, something to hook your feet into.

 

[jkismul]

or a simple belt.

 

[kingp]

I think I've given my shoulder enough time to heal form my bit of overtraining. I don't feel any soreness anymore. I am now going to start finding my *rm's. I understand I should find my 15's monday, 10's wednesday, and 5's friday? Then my SD. Do you guys usually do a second 2 week block of 5's or go with 6 week cycles, or if you do neg's do you always have a spotter to help get the weight up?

Again, I'd like to (beats the dead horse) ask about dips. If you can do 15 dips, do all of you have a belt or something to add weight. I imagine adding alot of weight when I would get to my 5's. 5 dips? Doesn't seem like much.

Here's what I'm looking at getting 15 rep max's for tomorrow -

legs-
leg press
leg curls

chest-
incline bench
decline bench

back-
lat pull downs
seated row

traps-
shrugs

shoulders-
lateral raise
rear delt

biceps-
curls

triceps-
tricep extensions

calves-
calf raises

in that order. And again, ( to beat the dead horse some more) one set of each??? and which exercises do you recommend W/U sets with?

Please give me your thoughts as I am anxious to get started with HST and would like to maximize my efforts.

p.s.- I would sure like to get my hands on primer/driver combo when I actually start my first cycle, but am afraid I'll have two wait till my second cycle.

Thanks for your time,

Patrick - who may never understand, hehe.

 

[Fausto]

KingP

Welcome from my side of the bench!

Quote[/b] ]If you can do 15 dips, do all of you have a belt or something to add weight. I imagine adding a lot of weight when I would get to my 5's. 5 dips?

I have a belt and train at home with limited equipment, however I just fit a dumbell between my curled legs, theweight actually rest on the top section of your calves, help to just lay it there makes it easier, does just fine.

Quote[/b] ]one set of each???

Very much an option, many of us do some at 2 sets each like squats, bench, mainly the compounds, you can opt for that route, the reason why Calkid is saying stick to 1 set is that the 15's can get real bitchy, and will take some getting used to, so maybe you should give it a go and see from there!

You leg workout doesn't look too hot, why not squats? Leg press is not too bad though, how about deadlifts?

Whilst we all like lat pulldowns we really advertize the use of chin ups with all the variations, reverse grip, close grip wide grip, overhand grip etc, have you tried it? Just a thought!

The rest looks cool, pretty much standard HST stuff.

Well let us know how it went.

Fausto

 

[kingp]

I would really like to see someone do dips with the weight on their legs like that, Maybe I'll experiment a bit at home to see what it feels/looks like.

I think I'll add the second sets to my compound exercises in my second cycle. I'll really feel it out on my first HST cycle.

I know squats are probably the best weight lifting exercise there is - but they hurt and take so much out of me, hehe. Honestly though, I skateboarded from 16 to 25 yrs old, and have always had very big strong legs, so all of my weight training to date has been really to let my upper body catch up with my lower body. I will most likely switch to squats in my 2nd or 3rd cycle.

And to be sure- Chin ups are the same as pull ups correct? It seems that lat pull downs are the same thing basically? Is there something I'm missing? The thing for me about pull ups is the opposite of my stand on dips. While I can easily do 15 unassisted dips, I don't know if I could do 15 unassisted pull/chin ups. And, especially with pull ups, I feel like it would be much easier for me to increase my weight (on a machine) when I get to lower reps (5's) than it would be to hang weights from my body to do one set of an exercise. ( I don't have a belt to add weights to - packing a belt around the gym to do one set) I guess I'm having trouble with these two exercises that require you to work out with mainly your bodyweight, because it seems like it would be difficult to adjust your weight while lowering your reps. I suppose it is because while I' have plenty of experience doing those two exercises, I actually never have done them with weights. I have just done countless sets to achieve fatigue. Hence my confusion, hehe).

And as far as the various grips, can't they all be done just the same with a pull down machine? (which again leads me to the one set - multiple set question I have in another thread)

regards,

Patrick

 

[kingp]

BTW, I went and got my 15 rep maxes yesterday. I dislike putting my numbers down on paper because It confirms my belief that I am a weakiling, hehe.

I'll post my rep maxes so you guys can help me with the calculator (especially the increments) when I get my 10's and 5's later this week.

I was feeling my shoulder pain slightly after yesterdays workouts. I thought it had completely gone. I am hoping after getting my 10 and 5 rm's and then deconditioning, the shoulder pain will be completely gone before starting my first cycle.

Now, looking at my numbers again....... maybe I'll go hang out at Super weennie hut juniours. (Sponge Bob joke for those of you who are familiar, hehe).

 

[kingp]

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