Need help designing an HST program

S

Singleton

New Member
My goals: size and strength

I have a lot of questions that are best answered by experience. I want to learn more before I go about trial and error.

I have read the 3-day per week routine and I don't like it for a few reasons:
1) It requires too many sets to failure per workout
2) The training is not frequent enough, especially in the early 15's and 10's but perhaps too frequent with the negatives


I want to split it like so:

Chest/Shoulders/Arms (C/A/S)
Back/Legs (B/L)

I want to prioritize my chest. This means a pressing exercise and a fly-type exercise (pec dec, cable, et c).

Here's some workouts to look at:

B/L
C.G.* P.D (pull down)
W.G P.D.
Cable row
Deadlift

C/A/S
Bench
Fly
Arnold Press
Cambered bar curl
C.G. Cambered press

I feel like I'm going to get bored of those exercises before 8 weeks. I like to switch exercises every workout. What should I do?

I think 5 sets to failure will be too much. Some days I can handle doing 5 sets to failure, but some days I can just get one or two and I know I'm finished.

I'm not doing squats. My calves and thighs are already big.

How can I develop this into a routine?

* C.G. - close grip, W.G. - wide grip, et c.
 
Singleton

It seems to me that you have missread something, The HST program requires:

Full body workout per training session.
Maximum 2 sets minimum 1 set per exercise (2nd set does not need to be as many reps)
Minicylces (15's, 10's and 5's) build up to that rep scheme's maximum but never to failure (rather short of).
Main cycle takes 8 weeks after which Strategic deconditioning is required for 9 - 14 days.
The frequency has been researched and gives you just enough of a rest window to be able to recuperate before loading again.

I for one am even doing less only twice per week with 15 exercises alternated.

The best you can do is to alternate exercises, that I find prevents boredom, and allows you to put in quite a variety.

Your choice of exercises is not bad, Pity you do not want to do squats, you should at lest do lighter one so that you don't grow further on your legs, but squats are the great natural testoterone releaser and what's more thay make other body parts grow besides the legs.

My two cents. :confused:

Fausto
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I have read the 3-day per week routine and I don't like it for a few reasons:
1) It requires too many sets to failure per workout
2) The training is not frequent enough, especially in the early 15's and 10's but perhaps too frequent with the negatives
Click to expand...

Fausto, you must have posted late at night and not really read my post.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]The frequency has been researched and gives you just enough of a rest window to be able to recuperate before loading again.
Click to expand...

An adult human is supposed to eat 2000 kCal/day, right?

It seems highly unlikely that the rest period would be the same for two individuals. Some individuals will naturally recover better. Some factors involved are the individual's hormone level, stress level, age, training ability, and training experience.

The cookie-cutter routine is not even worth trying for me. I'm going to get results just like Randy did. My experience tells me that it won't work.

Whole body workouts are also missing something that a lot of exercise physiologists would scoff at: a localized pump. But that is not the main point against whole body workouts.
The main point against whole body workouts is that they will result in overtraining during the negatives.

n sets, whether submaximal 15's or negatives, takes just two days to recover from? I smell bullshit.
 
Perhaps I'm wrong in this, but it seems that you're looking at HST with a HIT mentality. No offense meant. You're not looking for total recoperation in between lifting days, that's not what HST is about. You're not working to failure each exercise. Not even on your last day of each rep minicycle. Training to failure each time would lead to overtraining. But that's not the case here.

And yes, on average a normal person would eat around 2000 calories per day. With training for hypertrophy you'd want to up that amount though.
 
Right. We're not looking for total recovery. I'm aware of that.

And you got it right with finding my HIT mentality. I apply that mentality to life with horrible results (usually results in me being pissed off at everyone). I digress.

The discussion of recuperation arose from this statement:
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Main cycle takes 8 weeks after which Strategic deconditioning is required for 9 - 14 days.
The frequency has been researched and gives you just enough of a rest window to be able to recuperate before loading again
Click to expand...

I know that I'm not supposed to train to failure each time. I've read the articles and used the HST calc.

However, when training in the negs, I'll probably need more rest because those are extremely taxing.

Furthermore, I won't do the full body workout. It would be foolish because I know it won't work out well for me based on my own experience.

Taking all that I've said into account, I want to develop an HST routine based around these workouts:
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I want to split it like so:
Chest/Shoulders/Arms (C/A/S)
Back/Legs (B/L)
I want to prioritize my chest. This means a pressing exercise and a fly-type exercise (pec dec, cable, et c).
Here's some workouts to look at:
B/L
C.G.* P.D (pull down)
W.G P.D.
Cable row
Deadlift
C/A/S
Bench
Fly
Arnold Press
Cambered bar curl
C.G. Cambered press
Click to expand...
 
Every time I try to edit, the forum strips the newlines from my post making them difficult to read.

How can I design a program around two workouts:
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Chest/Shoulders/Arms (C/A/S)
Back/Legs (B/L)

I want to prioritize my chest. This means a pressing exercise and a fly-type exercise (pec dec, cable, et c).

Here's some workouts to look at:

B/L
C.G.* P.D (pull down)
W.G P.D.
Cable row
Deadlift

C/A/S
Bench
Fly
Arnold Press
Cambered bar curl
C.G. Cambered press
Click to expand...

How can I avoid boredom in training? SHould I switch exercises mid-cycle? I could switch from pec dec to flys or crossovers. I could switch from bench to decline. I could do BB rows instead of cable rows. Should I switch up the exercises?

In a Blade post, he says that it's OK to switch em up if you switch to an exercise that has greater ROM. Would it be OK to switch to declines for 10's then back to bench in 5's? Should I stick with bench all the way through the cycle?
 
You can alternate exercises during a cycle, yes. There are no set concrete "rules" to HST, meaning that you still should tailor it to your wants and needs while sticking to HST principals.
I think the best thing you can do is to do a split routine. 6 days a week. And from personal experience, unless you're steadfast on doing crossovers and/or pec deck, i would concentrate rather on exercises like incline bench press and dips for chest. Those I've found to be great mass builders. Flys are good, but they tend to isolate more than most want. Just a personal suggestion. If you wanted to do something like this for chest:
Monday - Incline Bench 2 sets, Dips 1 set
Wednesday - Flys
Friday - Same as Monday
Then the second week switch, I would imagine that would be good. It's really going to be trial and error, but at least it'll be interesting to see how it all turns out.
As far as switching to declines during 10's and/or 5's....why not? Again...trial and error. Most stick to the same exercises because they like to monitor each exercises success.
Again, these are my personal opinions to all of this. I kind of view HST the way Bruce Lee originally developed Jeet Kune Do. No 2 ways will be exactly the same. Everyones reactions will be different and one should strive to perfect their own using the basic principals. I personally try to treat each cycle as a learning experience.
Best of luck in what you decide! :)
 
Yeh,

I was hoping to get in 5 days a week. I do yoga 2x a week and I found that I get overtrained if I try to do yoga and weights on the same day.* I also like to do HIIT to keep cut up.

I may have to do an 8 day week. When I get to the negs, I think I may have to take extra days off.

Dips are great fun, especially with a plate tied on, but my elbows get bad. Same thing with pullovers. I love doing pullovers. They're great for the tris, lats, serratus, ribcage, chest, and abs and they really fill my whole torso up with blood.

That's exactly the kind of advice I was looking for. I want to use the principles to make my own routine. I believe the principles will work if I apply them properly.


* power yoga, not that sissy crap :)
 
So. If I do the type of split you suggested:
Monday - Incline Bench 2 sets, Dips 1 set
Wednesday - Flys
Friday - Same as Monday
I'll have only two sets of flys in the entire two weeks. Shouldn't I be doing more than that?
Or should I do <table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">
Monday BB Press
Wed Fly
Fri BB Press
Monday Fly
Wed BB Press
Fri Fly
[/QUOTE]
With Tues, Thurs, Sat being back days.

Is it the number of workouts, or the duration that matters most? I mean, should I shoot for six full workouts when I'm doing 15's or should I shoot for 2 weeks of 15's? I'm guessing that I should shoot for a certain number of workouts. However, if I cut chest into two workouts, I will have a steeper increase in weights for each exercise.

Also, I may get overtrained and need to take a day off. I want to know what to do when this happens so that I am right on track. I am assuming this will probably happen and that I will end up with an 8 day week.

Usually when this happens, I take a day off and then start back with my workout the next day, but sometimes I go in anyway and do some light stretching and a half-assed workout. As lame as that sounds, the half assed workout does usually leave me feeling better. I get a little stretch and pump and an nice shower after that. Feels good.



THis forum software strips white space and it is screwing up my posts.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]The frequency has been researched and gives you just enough of a rest window to be able to recuperate before loading again
Click to expand...
The frequency of the loading has nothing to do with recuperation. It has to do with the rise of protein synthesis and anabolic processes within the muscle.
The muscle doesnt need to recover to grow. 3days was chosen as a decennt compromise between frequency and what peopls CNS should beable to handle on average.
Some people here have no problem doing 5-6x weekly programs (as do a lot of Powerlifters/OLrs etc)
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Singleton @ July 25 2003,1:06)]n sets, whether submaximal 15's or negatives, takes just two days to recover from? I smell bullshit.
Click to expand...
No. Rather, assuming the weight is heavy enough to cause stretch-related cell distortion (weight-training microtrauma), n sets, whether submaximal 15's or negatives, will elevate mRNA levels and muscle synthesis for about 36 hours afterwards.

With sufficient feeding, the muscles will be fully reloaded with glycogen in a much shorter period.

So, at 36-48 hours, the muscles are ready to be loaded again to stimulate them to grow at a faster rate again.

It does not mean that the muscles are fully &quot;recovered.&quot; That takes a longer, depend on which effects of a bout you're looking at!
 
Symptoms of overtraining:
moody, irritable, restless/can't sleep well
feel heavy, esp in legs
elevated resting pulse and elevated pulse upon waking

The above symptoms will occur if I do 15 sets of negatives in 1`day. If I do 4 sets of negatives in 1 day every day, for three consecutive days I will probably be overtrained.
 
SO,

I still haven't figured out how to schedule my routine. I have two chest/arms/shoulders workouts and one back/legs workout that will be alternated.

When I start out with 15's, I should have no problem recuperating.

When I get to where I'm actually going to failure (2 weeks of negatives), what should I do to avoid overtraining?

One possibility I may take more time off to recuperate. If I choose this route, I will have broken the two week time frame. Is this advisable? If not, then what should I do?

It is important to know how to deal with these problems because they will probably arise.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Singleton @ July 27 2003,1:51)]The above symptoms will occur if I do 15 sets of negatives in 1`day. If I do 4 sets of negatives in 1 day every day, for three consecutive days I will probably be overtrained.
Click to expand...
No, you will NOT be overtrained. You will potentially over-reach. Overtaining is a more longer term effect. Overreaching is in the short term.
If you have never done it before, you do not know how your body willadapt.
If you cant handle 3x week 15s, 10's or 5's you need better work capacity or inc GPP. this is common from HIT style trainers
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Singleton @ July 27 2003,5:35)]When I get to where I'm actually going to failure (2 weeks of negatives), what should I do to avoid overtraining?
Click to expand...
Theoretically, you have not reached eccentric failure on these sets, you are just doing your 2rm (conmcentric) for three extrea eccentric reps.

But negatives aint fun, just another benifit of the SD
 
OK, just waiting for you to delete those threads!

Here's where the discussion left off:
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]SO,

I still haven't figured out how to schedule my routine. I have two chest/arms/shoulders workouts and one back/legs workout that will be alternated.

When I start out with 15's, I should have no problem recuperating.

When I get to where I'm actually going to failure (2 weeks of negatives), what should I do to avoid overtraining?

One possibility I may take more time off to recuperate. If I choose this route, I will have broken the two week time frame. Is this advisable? If not, then what should I do?

It is important to know how to deal with these problems because they will probably arise.
Click to expand...
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Singleton @ July 25 2003,6:35)]Right. We're not looking for total recovery. I'm aware of that.
And you got it right with finding my HIT mentality. I apply that mentality to life with horrible results (usually results in me being pissed off at everyone). I digress.
Click to expand...
lol
laugh.gif
 
Just a few considerations.

-HST does not demand for full body workouts, it simply states that these are the most logical way to comply to the HST principles. If you want a split routine do it. Besides, trying to convince you of anything takes way to much effort.

-Volume is not set in stone, there's no problem in decreasing volume a bit during 5's/neg's. I usually drop isolation exercises around this time. In the end of your cycle is normal that you start feeling a little beat up, at least I always do, and SD feels good after that.

-Changing exercises EVERY WORKOUT will be conterproductive to both your goals, you'll waist most of your time in continuos neural adaptations instead of focusing on what's important (load progression).
 
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