Korte's program

(scientific muscle @ Mar. 01 2007,18:42)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I know Dan has voiced this several times, and at hypertrophy-research.com we have discussed this several times and I am decided now from my experience that high volume is KEY to hypertrophy.

I would recommend HSTers to keep up the 3 times/week training and sticking to basic, heavy, compound exercises.  But one thing I would recommend is to INCREASE TOTAL REPS PER BODYPART, if you can handle it.
For example doing a simplified HST routine:
Day 1:Squats, Rows, Bench, Military Press.
Day 2:Deadlifts, Chinups, Dips, DB Upright rows.
In this routine there are only 4 exercise per workout, I would recommend doing at least 30 reps per exercise.  This means doing 2 sets of 15s, 3 sets of 10s and 6 sets of 5s.  If you are doing something like 8 or more different exercises, then 15-20 reps per exercise is probably fine. (which is what Dan and Bryan usually recommend).

Sometimes it is...other times it isn't.  It's important to change things up.  I think the main reason my legs have experienced growth is because I've been used to going heavy with light volume.  Going light with heavy volume has been a big change, and forcing the body to adapt usually equates to gains.  

Yeah, Russians are nuts.  Most ruskie programs I've analyzed are intense.   Can't argue with their performance, but I'd leave that insane stuff for the professionals or the very young.  I prefer the slow and steady pace.  Lots of different programs here ----http://www.joeskopec.com/programs.html
more korte update stuff-

Finished with 1st competition phase week. Three more weeks to go. This week consisted of low volume and gradually testing 80% of projected maxes. I was optimistic about this stuff at first but I'm getting nervous now. 80% of projected maxes weren't hard, but they weren't exactly easy either. I don't think I'm strong enough to reach my projected maxes, but I'm not finished recuperating either. Hips are still sore, even after a week. Will see what happens with upcoming week, testing 85% of projected maxes
I was just reading the Joe Skopec site, since I'd saved it and never reviewed it, with a close look at the Smolov cycle...and they said it right:
&quot;Abandon hope all ye' who enter here.&quot;

My heart healed up, but I don't think it's THAT healed! Holy Cowstuff Batman! It's like a cardio/while/weightlifting program!!! Steve, I'm beginning to think you're insane.
(quadancer @ Mar. 09 2007,21:39)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I was just reading the Joe Skopec site, since I'd saved it and never reviewed it, with a close look at the Smolov cycle...and they said it right:
&quot;Abandon hope all ye' who enter here.&quot;

My heart healed up, but I don't think it's THAT healed! Holy Cowstuff Batman! It's like a cardio/while/weightlifting program!!! Steve, I'm beginning to think you're insane.</div>
I'm doing Korte's stuff, not Smolov's. I can't handle that super high intensity almost kill yourself then recover stuff.
Completed 2nd week of competition phase with Korte and have two weeks left.  This week consisted of gradually testing 85% of maxes on lifts.  Very light volume, still in recuperation mode.  As far as I'm concerned, I've recovered from the heavy volume and I'm BORED.  You do around 6-8 sets of low reps moving 60% of your max goal and then you do 85% max effort of one move.  This is nothing, and I only rest about 30 seconds between sets and the entire workout lasts about 15 minutes--it's a joke....but, I think it's working, so I don't fool with it.  This competition phase is easy to the same degree as the difficulty of the conditioning phase.  

Tested 85% of squat goal today....boom, 610 lbs ATG like it was nothing.  Surprised at how easy it was.  I think I'll hit my goal in the squat.  I'm a lot stronger there.  This program has made me scared of the heavier weights, because you only work up to 64% of your max in the conditioning phase.  Therefore, slapping 150 lbs. extra on the bar to test your strength can be psychologically stressful.  The weight feels as heavy as it ever has when it's resting on my shoulders during the walkout, but I can really tell the difference in strength during the actual movement, especially at the bottom.  

Deadlift and Bench---I still have no idea if I am any stronger.  The heavy weight on the deadlift is already scaring the crap out of me and am really nervous about how I'll do on it once I get over 90% of projected max.  When I tested 85% on the deadlift the weight DID NOT go up easily.  I'm going to the college and workout with the kiddies these next two weeks so I'm not alone when I'm moving that kind of weight.
Yeah Steve, keep us posted on this most interesting adventure, since few of us have the guts to follow you through that program! (at least Sci went partway...)
At least with deads you can't drop the weight on yourself or be crushed in any way, but I know at your strength level you are strong enough to 'pull yourself apart' if things aren't in order.
The price of strength.
thanks guys

haha...yeah, I actually stand a much greater chance of being injured during the squat than the deadlift, it's just that I think I'll get the squat number, but....honestly, I don't think I'll get the deadlift.  What sucks about the squat is that I don't have any professional spotters, so when I go above 90% I will have to do it in a power rack instead of using a squat rack, which sucks.  

About 2 yrs ago I was maxing out on the squat and I failed with 500 lbs.  I had three inexperienced spotters--one behind, and two to the sides.  Despite going through a rehearsal with them prior to the lift, none of them knew what to do--the two at the sides grabbed the weight at different times, then panicked and released the bar (at, of course, different times), while the guy behind me just stood there.   I guess he thought his only job was to offer encouragement.  The weight wobbled back and forth violently as though I was a teeter totter and the guys on the sides were riding me.  It was like a bad 3 stooges movie.  Luckily I learned my lesson without experiencing injury. Only place where I use human spotters now are powerlifting meets.
Only a 610lb ATG squat, Steve? ;)

So, your goal is something like 715 for an ATG squat? Wide almost PL style or more high-bar oly style? If I should ever even get to where I can deadlift in that neighborhood I'll be awfully pleased. You've gotta train some of those kiddies to use a video camera. Youtube needs you.

I lift at home, so I do all my squats in the power rack. Thinking about ATG squats and the story about the spotters somehow made me think of the &quot;Ironmind 295KG Squat&quot; video on Youtube that has been linked here before. The one where that 220lb Oly lifter does a double with 650 then a single with 660, then just shrugs the 660 off his shoulders behind him and lets it drop.

I guess he knew he could get it and not get stuck, because I don't remember seeing anyone else nearby in the video. If I were doing Oly lifting, though, what would scare me is snatches. That business of having a heavy barbell overhead and losing it behind you looks pretty scary to me.
Ironmind keeps taking that video off youtube, but here's a poor quality video of the guy you're talking about --- http://youtube.com/watch?v=kBK-4Q-IlP4    You can download youtube videos if you have the greasemonkey extension for firefox and a good flash player.  I'll have to remember to do that the next time I see a good quality video of that squat.  

I've seen a lot of squat videos, but none of them are as pretty as that one.  During the conditioning phase I concentrated hard on keeping my back straight for all 8 sets, which caused it to throb like never before, but it's so much stronger as a result.  Makes me really appreciate how strong that guy's lower back is.  Even though I've worked very hard to keep my back as straight as he does, I'm still not quite that good; and I'm not even close to being that graceful.  My feet are  spread wider and my knees move out to the sides.  I also move in between my legs more.  

I've given up on parallel squats, my body just doesn't like them.  I'll just squat ATG at meets and &quot;take my losses&quot; in weight.
Yes, that's the one. I understand that it's Francis Tournefier, a French Olympic lifter in the 1990s. Apparently he won a bronze medal in the world championships.

I've heard about the Grease Monkey extension and need to check it out.

For some reason I seem to be stronger with a narrow stance. I'm not sure if it's just due to my build, or if perhaps I should try to do some box squatting and work on hip flexibility. To do a PL type squat, though, where you really sit back, I have to practically do a good morning. Long legs, medium torso, medium arms. Also works out way in favor of Sumo style in that body ratios deadlift test.
I'm exactly like Tex. I posted this in another forum I frequent:
I got my squat stands a couple weeks ago and started doing fw squats. I'd watched the DanJohn video a couple times to get my form right, but I almost can't do it. With the knees and feet that far apart and my back arched so much, it hurts my hip joints in the bottom; especially the next day.

I've been working only up to 315, where I don't even get ATG - it's like my hips won't twist that far, although I know they will with less weight. It's odd that I go ATG in my lever squat - with 560 for reps ATG. It's virtually the same position (or so I thought), except my hands are on handles in front of me like those special squat bars they make. I also have a hard time getting hands behind me on the bar due to the rotator problems.
My rehab thus far is the rotator work after workouts, and doing bottom squats with 135 on at the end of a squat session. I leave that weight loaded and walk in once in a while and squat down with that and just sit there letting the hips stretch a couple times a week. Last session I tried going partway back to the improper close stance with feet straight (pure quad movement)
and it seemed a little easier, feet just about 6&quot; closer than the Dan John method. I hate to take any glutes or hams out of the equation though, because I know that's gonna cripple my efforts when I get into the big numbers.

I may have to do like Tex and just pick the stance that's comfortable for me, but I want to have as much ham assist as I can get. It feels really scary when I go down with 315 and the hips start hurting 4-6&quot; above ATG.
Olympic squat-raw-no spotters

THIS is how I like to squat now, although I am weak at it, my back feels great and my quads and hams get hammered! Power squatting (PL) for me is more about back and glute strength...the quads hardly get involved...almost like doing a good morning for me! I hate them.
Isn't the Olympic squat the same as a full? I worry about my knees with deep squats, so I stop at parallel. I get mixed reviews on whether ATG squats are bad for your knees or not.
(scientific muscle @ Mar. 19 2007,22:37)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Olympic squat-raw-no spotters

THIS is how I like to squat now, although I am weak at it, my back feels great and my quads and hams get hammered! Power squatting (PL) for me is more about back and glute strength...the quads hardly get involved...almost like doing a good morning for me! I hate them.
I saw that video linked by Kelly Baggett on Lyle's site, and was going to link it, but you beat me to it. Except the one that he linked also had some other stuff. Including a power clean of almost 400 pounds by the guy. Oh, didn't have the sound up when I played this one, but on the longer one the narrator mentions that this was a light squat day for him, as it was a few days before the world championships.


Anyway, Baggett also had a quote from Pendlay that he pasted in (don't know from where). Sorry if it's going a bit OT, but I'm going to paste it in just because it's interesting (and mind boggling):
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">your post is correct in the fact that all types of training overlap somewhat... however, when you equate long term strength gain to hypertrophy, i think your wrong. chakarov back squats 700+ lbs, ass to the floor (and i mean WAY below what would be considered powerlifting legal) with a close stance, no knee wraps, no belt, and no spotters. he doesnt even get psyched up, he just steps under the bar and does it. ive seen him carrying on a convesation while deep in the hole with over 600lbs on his back. he weighs about 200lbs, stands about 5' 10&quot; tall, and has thin legs... the kind of legs where regular levis 501 jeans would be loose. this is a long term adaptation to strength and power training if there ever was one. there is no bodybuilder, no matter how big their legs, who can squat with him. training for neural adaptation, and SELECTIVE hypertrophy is indeed different in its effects than general hypertrophy training, in both the short and long term.</div>
If you'll check some of the threads in here, you'll find opinions and link deferring to ATG as being better for the knees, over and over. I quit using knee wraps after switching to ATG, which is why I want to stay with them.
I'm thinking that my jumping into FW squats with the 5x5 is a wrong approach. I'm looking forward to an HST cycle starting with 15's and light weight to get my hips to flex and work on form and find what will work for me.
That video was awesome Sci, makes me feel like an old man!
Chakarov is an ideal example of how to squat and keep your back upright. Look at his hip flexibility. That's not possible for most folks right off the bat even with a light weight. It takes time and a concerted effort to develop it.

I also feel that if weight class restrictions were not important and Chakarov just wanted to be able to lift more weight he would have to get bigger. So even though his neural adaptation is supreme, his muscle mass will eventually limit his performance. Sure, his limit is superior to most but it's still a limit.

I also don't buy that he has thin legs. Thinner than expected maybe, but there's a lot of stuff happening in those thighs.
He certainly doesn't have the steroid look though.
I agree with Lol concerning the strength &amp; hypertrophy thing.  I think that Chakarov purposely limited his size to stay in his weight class, and if you look at the size of his legs compared to the rest of him, they are not skinny.  I'm just glad I don't have to worry about the hypertrophy/strength issue.  I've discussed that stuff way too many times online already.  My only goal anymore is to get stronger, regardless of size.  

My form is more like Chakarov's than Francis's form.  You see how Chakarov rocks a little?  It's nothing major, but the rocking increases as the weight gets heavier.  I believe that is because as the weight gets heavier, he's leaning his back forward (very slightly) to help him near the bottom of the lift, and then he's adjusting and getting himself straight again.  It's nothing major, but that is what it looks like to me.  Francis's back is rock solid the entire movement and I think that is why his entire movement is slightly more fluid.  Maybe it's just an issue of body mechanics.  

I've been trying to keep my back as stiff as his(Francis) during the entire movement and it really makes your lower back work hard.  Anyway, both of these guys are amazing lifters.  Here is a better quality video of Francis http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpA47OUohpM

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">he doesnt even get psyched up, he just steps under the bar and does it.</div> Awesome--that's what I want. That guy has probably squatted a million bazillion times to get like that
I agree with Steve's and Lol's comments pretty much down the line, including about Chakarov's leg size. I believe that Glenn Pendlay is about 6'2&quot; and weighed something like 330 when he competed. Now he has not competed in some time and posted on the Elite Boards IIRC that he was down to around 270, and had not really trained in about 4 years. He indicated that he was still able to DL 400lbs for 20 reps without a warmup so all of his muscle may not have atrophied.
Anyway, I think that Pendlay's definition of &quot;thin&quot; may not be the same as mine.

I noticed the difference in form between the two guys also. I'm more like Francis, and don't go nearly as far below parallel as Chakarov when I'm calves to hams. Maybe body proportions, maybe partly a hip flexibility thing that won't let me squat so deep with my feet wider. I just wonder what it'd be like to squat over 600lbs so easily that I could carry on a conversation at the same time.

Oh, and Greasemonkey is da bomb, Steve.
I have to do some traveling again so won't be able to post my weekly update on this Korte stuff (will be over soon), so am doing it now.  I have a little over one week left to go.  This week I have been continuing the competition phase and testing 90% of my max efforts while doing low volume.

I can already tell how the deadlift is going to turn out.  I haven't made any progress.  Might even be a little weaker.   I pulled 90% on Monday and it sucked.  I can't pull much more than that.  I also believe I have gotten weaker in the bench press, which REALLY sucks.  I have, however, improved ALOT in the squat.  

This actually makes perfect sense.  Throughout the conditioning phase the squat was a whore and I hated it.  The deadlift was hard, and the bench press was easy.  So, you get what you put in.  If something is easy, chances are it's not doing anything for you.  The deadlift was hard, but I believe I am so strong in that lift that I'm extremely close to my genetic potential, and it will take extreme measures to get me where I want to go (without using drugs).  This means using a deadlift program that will suck and be as painful as Korte's squat program was for me.  Bench press will have to be much harder too, but on that lift I might get away with a &quot;hard&quot; program, as opposed to brutal.

I will finish the program and will test my maxes at  100% next week at a plifting gym in Denver instead of doing the 95% effort as instructed.  

My opinion about Korte's stuff is that it's too easy on the bench press.  I think that the deadlift portion might work well for someone who is not so close to his genetic potential. The squat portion, of course, is excellent.  I think that I have probably exceeded my goal in the squat.  Anyway, I won't ever do this program again.  I could deal with no progress in the deadlift if my bench went up, but failures in both exercises leaves me too disappointed.