Genetic Potential

Discussion in 'Basic Training Principles and Methods' started by Lol, Nov 2, 2005.

  1. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    I'm about to start my first cycle of HST after taking a week to find my 15, 10 & 5 RMs and now twiddling my thumbs, so to speak, for 9 days of SD.

    Been reading Bryan's FAQ's over and over. At last some of the more scientific stuff is starting to stick! On the section about AAS and Prohormones Blade says:

    So what I'd like to know is: How much in the way of gains can a natural bodybuilder expect to make assuming that he does everything correctly according to HST & HSN guidelines?

    I realise that everyone has their own genetic potential. For example, my misses has bigger calf muscles than me (inherited from her pop). She obviously has more muscle tissue there to begin with than I do, even though I'm carrying around 13 stone and she's about 10 stone. For me to even reach her 'normal' size will require lots of growth [​IMG]

    Let's say I have average potential. I'm 5'10", 32" waist, weigh 182lbs and I don't carry much fat (my six pack is a bit blurry though!)). For example, lets take arms: I currently have a 15" flexed upper arm. Am I likely to ever be able to get a 16" upper arm measurement (or larger :) ) from increased muscle mass?

    I'm really hoping that others out there will have started like me and exceeded my goal!

    Many thanks for any feedback.
     
  2. chiefhog

    chiefhog New Member

    There is a genetic potential calculator on these forums somewhere. Maybe someone will be nice enough to post a link for you.

    There is certainly a genetic limit to what you can accomplish without the aid of AAS. However, what you can obtain naturally is much more than most people realize. It just takes lots of eating and hard work.

    There is no doubt you can achieve a 16" arm. I am tall and lanky and have small joints and I think I can build 17" arms with lots of calories and hard work. I have already gained an inch in my arms since I started HST (I'm at 15.5" now).

    Good luck!
     
  3. faz

    faz Active Member

    i put the calculator on a uk natural bbng forum..and asked all the competing guys to try it..the good news is most of them were bigger than they were predicted to be so i think the calculator just gives you a general idea :D
     
  4. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    I'm not sold on this idea of there being those who are extremely genetically gifted and then most of us are just in the average pool.

    Genetically I think that we each will have elements that aid/don't aid our training and hypertrophy goals - insulin sensitivity, limb length/bone structure/height and so on...but I think most of us can reasonably expect to achieve a 'large' size if we eat and train correctly. It's just a matter of finding what "correctly" is (and you read about guys saying which little tweaks they have discovered works for them all the time), and doing so over an extended period of time.
     
  5. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    Thanks to all for your comments.

    So it looks like there is at least some hope of attaining my goals. Just got to do the work and get the eating right! And, once I have gained a bit of experience, figure out the tweaks that work best for me.

    Re your comment Jester: So someone like Casey Viator, who Mr. Darden waxes on about ad infinitum in his HIT stuff must have been on AAS to get as big as he did rather than have betteer than average potential? If he really got all his gains training the way Mr. Darden suggests then he is not made of the same stuff as me! :)
     
  6. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    HIT - don't touch it.

    Casey Viator - yes, on steroids. Just like Arnold, Sergio, Franco, Mentzers, Ferrignou yada yada . . .
     
  7. faz

    faz Active Member

    also viator did a lot of other types of training before hit to get to that size..as jester says dont touch it :D
     
  8. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    As far as HIT goes, I'm afraid it's a case of been there, done that, but, thankfully, didn't buy the T-shirt!

    I just got back into training after 20 years off ( that's some SD! ) and picked up an old HIT book I still had. Gave it a blast for 6 weeks. Thankfully, one of the HIT principles is almost on the money, ie. Whole body workout 3 x weekly. Anyway, after such a long SD pretty much anything would have worked. Still, I added half a stone in that time so can't complain about that. :)

    What got me looking for a training philosphy more 'up-to-date' in its thinking was succumbing to two colds in the space of as many weeks. So I can thank HIT for the colds I got which then encouraged me to see if there was a better way to train. And so I chanced upon HST! Bryan (and all the others contributing to this site) is a cool guy for making his research and ideas available for all. Cheers mate!

    Right, back to some more SD.  :D
     
  9. jvroig

    jvroig Super Moderator

    HIT = Highly Ineffective Training. [​IMG]
     
  10. ChrisHouston

    ChrisHouston New Member

    Maximum Size Calculator

    Nice enough? ;)

    I was very pleased to see I was nowhere near what it predicted. Looks like I have many productive years ahead of me. :D

    Chris.
     
  11. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    Just tried the calculator (thanks for the link) and now I'm a little worried! [​IMG]

    I've got fairly small wrists and ankles. When I use my measurements (6.875" for wrists, 8.75 for ankles and height 70", I get max of 16.4" for upper arms which is an inch and a bit over what I am now. That's ok, but it gives thighs as 23.6" which is pretty much what they are already! Same for neck @ 16"

    I'm not carrying much fat but obviously a bit more than the 8% used in the calcs. I can only hope that the relatively small increases shown for my possible maximums make a lot of visible difference. Right now I feel like a complete wimp and want to make a lot of difference through HST.

    It'd be great to know if anyone here has exceeded their predicted max stats without resorting to AAS?
     
  12. faz

    faz Active Member

    lol at least 20 guys said they were bigger than predicted
     
  13. colby2152

    colby2152 New Member

    tried the calculator... 216 lbs of lean mass... at 8%.. I have some work to do! [​IMG]
     
  14. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    Thanks Faz and apologies for not remembering what you had already said a few replies earlier!  Too much SD! [​IMG] :D

    So there's hope for me! Started on my 15s tonight and boy did they feel heavier than I expected! 9 days of SD has definitely made me feel weaker. I can hardly believe I'm going to manage my final 15s w/o. [​IMG]
     
  15. Hey LOL, dont think u should worry about the potential. Picture this, even though ur max potential theoreticly is low- because of feks thin waste, just think of how impressive you would look if you got the lats and pecs so that you measure three times or more around the chest compared to the waist.
     
  16. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    A 90"+ chest measurement! That would make Sergio look like a skinny old man! :D

    Not sure I could even fit that image in my dreams!

    Right now I'll be happy if I make 47" or 48".

    First week of 15's finished and I'm loving it! Feel nicely tired but blasted through each workout. Never taken creatine before and I definitely seem to be more energised during my w/o because of it (or maybe it's just a renewed enthusiasm?). Combination of the two I expect.
     
  17. Davidriis

    Davidriis New Member

    Just tried the max size calculator and I can expect to attain a 42" chest, 15" arms and 22" thighs. This is quite a bit bigger than I am now so I've got some work to do yet.
    The problem is that I don't really know what these measurements look like in real terms. Can anyone point me towards someone in the public eye who's about this size so I can get an idea of what I'll look like when I get there.
    I'm 5'10" by the way so some one around that height as well.
     
  18. scientific muscle

    scientific muscle New Member

    I have the same thing in my "genetic potential" chart, it says my thighs are almost as big as they will ever be , I think it says I can gain 1.5" or something. But Mind you that is at 8% bodyfta and thighs carry ALOT of bodyfat. If you think about it, most fat is stored on thighs, glutes, and torso. My thighs seem pathetic to me, and 1.5" gain doesn't seem much, until I imagine my thighs 1.5" bigger AND RIPPED! If I had low bodyfat, with ripped defintion and 1.5" larger, that wouldn't be so bad. I am not sure what my bodyfat is, but my abs, lats and thighs are very UNRIPPED, I can barely see any definition, even if I don't have a gut or anything.
     
  19. stevejones

    stevejones Member

    <div>
    (Lol @ Nov. 06 2005,19:34)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Just tried the calculator (thanks for the link) and now I'm a little worried! :butbut

    I've got fairly small wrists and ankles. When I use my measurements (6.875&quot; for wrists, 8.75 for ankles and height 70&quot;, I get max of 16.4&quot; for upper arms which is an inch and a bit over what I am now. That's ok, but it gives thighs as 23.6&quot; which is pretty much what they are already! Same for neck @ 16&quot;

    I'm not carrying much fat but obviously a bit more than the 8% used in the calcs. I can only hope that the relatively small increases shown for my possible maximums make a lot of visible difference. Right now I feel like a complete wimp and want to make a lot of difference through HST.

    It'd be great to know if anyone here has exceeded their predicted max stats without resorting to AAS?</div>
    Yes, I have.  I don't believe that calculator is terribly accurate.  When I was at 5% my chest,thighs,and calves all exceeded the max measurements the calculator gave me.  My arms didn't

    I don't know how long you have been working out, but the best thing you can do for your growth is to stay away from anything that tells you of your potential, and don't measure too much.  Make strength goals, and work on achieving them through HST.  Once you have achieved them, measure yourself.  After you are squatting 500+ lbs, deadlifting 500+, and incline benching 350+ (or the equivalent),  then it might be time to use a calculator like that and see where you stand.  When I was smaller, I'm glad I didn't have access to a calculator like that.
     
  20. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    Wow, LOL, I thought you were one of the YUGE DOGS! You're more MY size, eheheh....I'm just an inch shorter and about the same for the calculator's purposes...and I'm here to tell you don't be limited by it. It's really just a field guess, not an accurate prediction. I went from 198 to 210lbs. with HST, and my arms are 16-3/4&quot; and were slightly larger, my neck is a genetic gift, now 19&quot;, my thighs are around 23+ inches as the calculator says, and a 44-1/2&quot; chest.
    So don't worry about it, you have a lot of growing to do. You only have yourself to beat; that's where the battle is.
     

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