Tired of the Injuries

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omega99

Member
Over the past year, I've managed to develop a severe case of tendonitis in my left arm, along with ongoing shoulder pain in my right shoulder. Needless to say, this has been limiting poundages and augmenting my frustration level in the gym.

I've had great success with HST, but somewhere between the full body routines and higher frequency workouts, I'm experiencing more injuries. Of course, I'm not going to admit that age might be a factor too.  
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The things I've experimented with are eliminating certain "high risk" exercises, reducing repetitive excercies from workout to workout, upping the fish oil, and of course, paying more attention to form. Still, I'm seeing little improvement, and am coming to the conclusion that it's really tough to limit repetitive shoulder and arm involvement in any upper body exercise.

So, as difficult as it may be (mentally), I'm thinking that some combintation of limiting and/or alternating load, volume, and frequency may be the key. I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on this, especially those who have experienced success in reducing/eliminating injuries in their training.
 
Since I'm new to PL'ing, but much older than you, I'm not sure how sound this may be for you, but here goes:
The fish oil helps for me, but I'm downing 10-15 caps a day to get rid of it. Miss 2 days and pains return. Someone posted that olive oil with the fish exacerbates it's effects, but haven't tried drinking that yet.
The face pulls every workout have helped a LOT for the shoulder impingement, and for some reason, 3 days ago I woke up with the pain suddenly gone...I mean like, 95%. The day before I had brutally done front db laterals with up to 60 pounders followed by 2 sets of 60lb. facepulls by 25. Go figure.
Having been somewhat chewed upon by Ricky Crain, I began cutting out the BB exersizes, favoring the big 3 and directly related assistance work only. After reading some Wendler, Korte, and Faleev, I decided to go with the Korte 3x3 for a couple months. If I lose biceps or traps or lats, I'll have to add something back in for those, but I'll be a purist for now, just as I did with HST.
The reason I mentioned it was because it's either the fish oil or eliminating exersizes that has gotten rid of hip pain and several other things, except for my elbow joints. Back when I had the medial epicondylitis, it took 3 years to go away, so you may be in for a stint there, but good luck man.
 
Interesting about the tennis ball stuff.. thanks for the links CoolColJ.

I regularly suffer from stress and painful joints - knees from squatting (I wear straps now, and do less squats - do leg press instead)

Shoulder joint pain from dips and bench press - I warm up thoroughly and do lots of rotator cuff exercises pre work out.

And also wrist pain from barbell and dumbell curls.

I now have twice a month deep tissue massage from a really good masseuse. Its quite painful, but really effective.

I, like Quad, drink a lot of fish oil, and olive oil, and also take Glucosimine/MSM/Chondroiton combo every meal.

At the end of the day, though, I thinks its all about getting old...!
My body is starting to wear out, after 20yrs of heavy weight training - and generally active sports!

Oh well, still waiting for that magic pill..


Brix
 
I feel your pain bro!!

I had real bad knees from years of fast bowling, slamming your front leg down onto a hard pitch time-after-time really took a toll (probably didn't help that the youthful me didn't worry too much about warming up). But I got on the fish oil & (JUST as importantly I believe) Glucosimine/MSM/Chondroiton, my knees are now much much better, I swear by this combination. I can't even hear them popping & grinding when waling down the stairs first thing in the morning.
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(though still make noises when squatting!)

I remember reading that joint tissue can be "scarred" easily (by not warming up fully was it??), and it takes a long time to heal (my knees took a few years to recover). I was wondering if there was any evidence that doing some high rep warmups with a very light weight would help prevent injuries with weights in the same way it does for more aerobic exercise by getting more(?) fluid into the joint for lubrication? I mean does it take longer to warmup your joint than it does the actual muscle?
 
I find a ten rep set generally enough to warm joints after five minutes on the elliptical to warm the body.
I quit the glucosamine/chondroitin and switched to fish oil and got MUCH better relief - many think the G/C is vastly overrated and overadvertised. Meagerly effective at best.
My knees got problematic years ago. I switched to ATG squats and threw away the knee wraps, and the pain went away, so I'm in the ATG club. At least break parallell. I also like to point the toes in line with the knees.
 
Whilst I guess everyone is different... I find I had exactly the opposite experience to you Quad;

I tried fish oil - good quality one - for years, and found it didnt make that much difference, unfortunately - though I never exceeded the recommended limit.... maybe I should double the dose? (Fish breath!)

And yet G/M/C combo - and I take max dose on that 3X a day... DOES make a noticeable difference for me - and also for my wife, who also suffers bad knees.

I currently take both.

I gave up squats when I slipped a disc in my back, and now only do leg presses, but I was always very careful about the toes pointing the same way as my knees.
Likewise on the LP. Very important I think?

Brix
 
I recall that Steve Jones busted his ankle deadlifting. I got flat tennies for both squats and deads and feel much more secure, especially with the sumo style I use.

I squirted a disc in my back on a 430lb. squat some years ago and quit them. After more years of back pain, Dr. Sarno's advice got me to squatting and deadlifting with an empty bar to strengthen the back. Then I added weight. This year I hit 405 on squat and 460 on deads and I have no back pains to speak of. I use no belt except on maxes and no knee wraps and use deep, perfect form. Just thot I'd mention it, as not all back conditions are permanent.
I may be a 215lb. fat tard, but I got squat.

That salesguy Kevin Trudeau sells a glucosamine they swear works 100% better than any others and says the others don't work much at all. There may be some quality issues with my storebought stuff?

OMEGA! You might want to read Faleev and Korte, even if you don't want to limit yourself to 3 lifts. Some of the stuff they say makes a lot of sense, and technically, you're working most everything in the body. That could be the break your bod needs for a while, and you can get stronger in the meantime!
 
Hmmm.

- Glucosamine is pretty well tested for arthritis, but has to be taken for atleast 1 month.

- Fish Oil acts as a mild anti-inflammatory (among other things), so it would be somewhat more immediately noticable when taken and/or suddently stopped. Just like taking/not taking ibuprofen.

- Dips. I personally started doing some again recently, only to get a really dodgy right shoulder. I put it down to two things. The width of the dip station is too wide for me, its not really comfortable. And bad form by dipping too low. For chest focus, you should lean forward, knees tucked forward, and dip till the arms are about 90 degrees, and no more. Going lower puts alot more stress on the shoulder for very little chest working benefit IMO. Having said that, I can't make the Dips Stations at my gym less wide, so they are currently off my program, sadly.

- Foam Rolling, get onboard!  
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- One other thing I've found personally when I get shoulder issues is I've usually been ignoring my rear delts. I like to hit them with a simple Reverse Dumbell Flye type movement. But when leaning over horizontal to the group, I actually have the dumbell held vertical to the ground rather than horizontal (hope that makes sense).

- MyoReps. I know it might be a little Flavour of the Month on this board, but it might be useful for reducing the total number of reps per workout and allowing work with lighter weights.
 
about knee pain - see if you have trigger points in your rectus femoris, release them and then stretch the hell out of them, straight after in a bulgarian split squat type stretch. Rear heel to butt , vertical femur and lean back a little. Do this daily and even twice a day till things improve, and it will improve quickly

http://johnmintonmassage.blogspot.com/2007....17.html

http://www.round-earth.com/kneepain-rectus-femoris.html

I just find most issues are due to tissues tightening up from either trigger points or msucles getting tight, so joints cannpt work properly and you get compenstation patterns
 
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(quadancer @ Aug. 23 2009,8:37)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I got flat tennies for both squats and deads and feel much more secure, especially with the sumo style I use.

I squirted a disc in my back on a 430lb. squat some years ago and quit them. After more years of back pain, Dr. Sarno's advice got me to squatting and deadlifting with an empty bar to strengthen the back. Then I added weight. This year I hit 405 on squat and 460 on deads and I have no back pains to speak of. I use no belt except on maxes and no knee wraps and use deep, perfect form. Just thot I'd mention it, as not all back conditions are permanent.

That salesguy Kevin Trudeau sells a glucosamine they swear works 100% better than any others and says the others don't work much at all. There may be some quality issues with my storebought stuff?</div>
Sorry - I'm a Brit (!) whats a 'flat tennie' ?

I only popped my disc back in May (work related rather than gym) so gonna give it time before I start squats again.

Hopefully by the time I come back from my holiday in September?

I understand about how glucosimine has to build up in the joints, and needs to be taken daily for about a month before any noticeable results. thats exactly what mine did.

Now, if I stop taking it, after a week or so, the pain starts up again... so I'm pretty happy with my brand

Unfortunately, the missus only takes them when she remembers, so its not as effective for her - though she says it has made a difference.

Oh, and I'm a 285lb fat tart! (Well, down to about 20% now on this crappy ketogenic piss-all-day-long diet plan!)

Brix
 
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(trump @ Aug. 23 2009,11:41)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">- Dips. I personally started doing some again recently, only to get a really dodgy right shoulder. I put it down to two things. The width of the dip station is too wide for me, its not really comfortable. And bad form by dipping too low. For chest focus, you should lean forward, knees tucked forward, and dip till the arms are about 90 degrees, and no more. Going lower puts alot more stress on the shoulder for very little chest working benefit IMO. Having said that, I can't make the Dips Stations at my gym less wide, so they are currently off my program, sadly.


- One other thing I've found personally when I get shoulder issues is I've usually been ignoring my rear delts. I like to hit them with a simple Reverse Dumbell Flye type movement. But when leaning over horizontal to the group, I actually have the dumbell held vertical to the ground rather than horizontal (hope that makes sense).</div>
Trump,

I've been doing dips for about 20+years now - initially superslow style, and now HST - and built up some good size and strength with them.

I almost always do them leaning forward to emphasize my chest...

I love em. My routines have always included squats, chin ups and dips.
I get a great pump from them, and really contract at the top of the movement.

I stretch as much as I can - yeah, maybe thats why I occaisonally have issues with my shoulders, but I love that stretch!
Nowadays, a good rotator cuff warm up prevents any major problems.

Luckily every gym I've ever used has had great dip bars - usually adjustable for width, which is lucky.

Brix
 
Brix: you guys probably call 'em sneakers or something like that. Running shoes, gym shoes, deck shoes, almost everything here is often called 'tennies', short for 'tennis shoes' - I don't know how that got started. Here's Walmart's latest find for $20.00 US.
I wonder if the 3 foot wide dips I used to do all the time had anything to do with my shoulder problems, although the dips never hurt doing them.
 
Brix, I'm 44 years old, so I'm no spring chicken. I had to quit benching and dipping for a few months due to ever-present and worsening left AC joint pain (caused by flat benching but then exacerbated by dipping). I then started taking around 30g of cod liver oil daily. After the break, I tried reintroduced benching into my routine. There has been some discomfort but any subsequent pain hasn't been nearly as bad. However, I am still far away from lifting anything approaching heavy for me, so it is still early days. Myo-reps are helping me get some sort of decent stimulus with the lighter loads.

While I can't be sure how much the oil is or isn't helping my shoulder, it is interesting that my hips and knees are all doing fine while on my current Smolov squat routine. A daily dose of 30g cod liver oil hasn't caused me any problems that I am aware of, so you might want to try again with a higher dose this time and see if you notice a difference.
 
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(quadancer @ Aug. 25 2009,9:08)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">THIRTY GRAMS??? Are you sure you don't have the Screaming Hershey Squirts in the morning? I'd be afraid to squat!</div>
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Yeah... that sounds a lot!

I currently take one daily capsule of Seven Seas Pure Cod Liver Oil Extra High Strength....
and thats only 1050 mg...

And I also dont think my missus would appreciate my breath if I took too much!

Brix
 
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(quadancer @ Aug. 24 2009,7:32)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Brix: you guys probably call 'em sneakers or something like that. Running shoes, gym shoes, deck shoes, almost everything here is often called 'tennies', short for 'tennis shoes' - I don't know how that got started. Here's Walmart's latest find for $20.00 US.
I wonder if the 3 foot wide dips I used to do all the time had anything to do with my shoulder problems, although the dips never hurt doing them.</div>
Ahhh.... yeah, sneakers or trainers over here...

I tend to prefer a solid pair of Cross-trainers, with air cushioned sole, and all that type of fancy stuff.

I have very flat feet, so need an orthopedic support in them aswell, to protect my knees.
Thin soled shoes like those in your pic look too unsupportive for me?

Although mine cost me about £90 (which I think is about $180?)

I've always opted for narrow-grip dips, leaning inwards to emphasise the chest. I find it helps with the contraction at the top end of the movement?

Brix
 
The idea of a flat shoe in the deadlift is for stability and depth, not support. The last thing you want to have happening is your foot to roll over with several hundred pounds pushing down on your ankle. Ask Steve about that.
You also get a free 1/2&quot; lift by being that much lower. Some guys lift in slippers, sort of like ballerina's. If you do sumo, you want a good grip though, so I like the ...sneakers.
Or barefoot.
 
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(quadancer @ Aug. 25 2009,2:08)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">THIRTY GRAMS??? Are you sure you don't have the Screaming Hershey Squirts in the morning? I'd be afraid to squat!</div>
OK, yeah, it's 30ml, not 30g. I take 3 dessertspoonfuls of oil a day which actually weighs in at 24g. Still, it's easy to take. If I had to take capsules I couldn't do it. I hate capsules.

Hey Brix, did you read the Fish Oil Supps thread?

In my experience Seven Seas oil is unpleasant stuff, so I understand your worry about fishy breath. The oil I take is odorless and tastes of lemons. No fishy burps. I have to stop myself taking more than 30ml daily - it's that nice!
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Just wanted to chime in and say &quot;thanks&quot; to everyone for their suggestions to my original post. I can certainly see that I'm not alone in the &quot;injury management&quot; department. I actually feel lucky that I haven't had any knee/leg issues...yet.

I'm coming off a cycle where I'm deloading and will SD for 2 weeks (maybe more depending upon how I heal). When I get back to it, I'll be implementing some of the ideas discussed...stretching, foam rolling (I now have a new affection for tennis balls), and some shoulder therapy with the face pulls, innies/outies, etc. Going to also try to cut down on weekly volume and/or allocate more time in the higher rep ranges (a la, myo-reps).

Quad, I actually have tried the face pulls based on a post of yours a while back and have felt better as a result (thanks!). The Korte stuff looks interesting, but might have to substitute Sumo for Deads since I tore up my lower back with piss poor form a while back.

One thing is for sure, and that is that injury prevention will play a lead role in developing my routine from here on out. Don't see much sense in trying to lift heavy weights when I can't even pour a glass of milk. 
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