Simplify and Win!

Here's my simplest yet:

Basic Madcow 5x5 exercise format put into HST form, with the exception that squats are replaced with leg presses--have a painful low back issue that keeps taking me out.  So I'm laying off squats for now.

Monday:  Leg Press, Bench, Floor Rows, BB Curls

Wednesday:  Leg Press, Standing BB Press, Deads, Chins

Friday:  Leg Press, Bench, Floor Rows, BB Curls

Peak volume decreases: 2x15, 2x10, 2x5; but total workload ramps up due to increasing the number of warmup sets all done for 5 reps each.  At the end of the 5s, this approach will be identical to the 4th week of Madcow SF 5x5.  This gives me a choice of either resetting and pressing on with the Madcow SF 5x5 or going with MaxStim 3s and then SDing.

I took body composition measurements during the last week of my previous 5x5 cycle, and I will take them again during the last week of this current HST cycle.  It should be interesting to see what changes occur.  I am eating for bulk, but will have to cut in the not too distant future (getting a noticeable gut here).
 
<div>
(Fausto @ May 31 2007,14:53)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Another happy customer,spread the word!</div>
Happy indeed -- until June 6...

I blew out my back (not while lifting), so I've have to curtail my HST cycle before otherwise necessary. I got in 3 1/2 weeks of 5's, though, with regular weight increases each w/o session -- well beyond my 5RM's!

As Fausto promised, I did experience some &quot;surprise gains&quot;. My chest, back, and arms are noticeably thicker (though I didn't do any &quot;arm&quot; work...), and my chins and dips improved greatly.

I had never done deadlifts before. So I took them rather slowly. I was up past 150% of my bodyweight and still going strong when, alas, my cycle ended.

I'm doing my SD (Spontaneous Decompression) now while waiting for my back to stop aching. 'Nother coupla days and I'll be back at the iron for my 3rd cycle.

Thanks to you all for your help.
 
Tunnel

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">(Spontaneous Decompression)</div>

That onejust killed me
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Glad you got some gains.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">As Fausto promised, I did experience some &quot;surprise gains&quot;. My chest, back, and arms are noticeably thicker (though I didn't do any &quot;arm&quot; work...), and my chins and dips improved greatly. </div>

My promise is based on lots of &quot;labcoat&quot; trials and...truly...the simpler and heavier, the better! Keeping form,nutrition and...all of the necessary exercises in the mix.

Keep it up! When you back heals...of course!
 
fausto - the changing of excercises is the only thing stopping westside powerlifters from burning out.

louie has said if they didnt change max effort movements every week they burn out and strength stops dead.

yes we arn't lifting the same intensity as 1 rm but every week but........ if its good enough for them its good enough for me.

i'm not talking about changing every week, but after every cycle i would think would be sensible, or at least when you hit a plateau in a certain excercise.

its strange bryan didn't come to the same conclusions, as hst was based alot the russian/bulgarian science, and thats where westside got it.
 
Dragon

I would not jump to conclusions, but by the by, that is why I use a A/B setup most of the time as it keeps things from being the same throughout!

Except now where I am doing supersets instead and so both A/B are done the same day!
 
Well, after reading lots of threads and info of HST, i still wonder this.
In this case, im working out 2x week, cause im training jiu jitsu 3x week and its pretty exhausting.Here is the routine

A
2x Squat
2x Inclined bench Press
2x Chin ups(narow grip)
2x lateral raises
2x calf raise (machine)
2x crunches

B
2x Deadlift
2x Dips
2x Bent row
2x Military Press
2x 1 leg calf raise (using dumbell)
2x another abs exercise

Well, using common sense, i should not use A and B routines having a 2x wek frequency right?
Im still asking myself what should i do, cause doing squat or deads 1 time per week means that ill hit that same exercise each 7 days, thinking that both works pretty diferent, also i know they are both the best compound exercises.
What should i do? plz help
Thanks
 
Ministro

I am training 2x week and use an A/B set up, nothing wrong with that, it simply allows you to fit about 10 different exercises into a workable program.

Keep going, the only problem I see is that the Jiu-Jitsu is somehow interfering with the weight training, to have the best of both worlds you'll have to play around with the volume, if it is getting too exhausting then drop the volume.

Where are you on the program now? 5's? Stick to 2 x 5, I think one set alone will be too little.
 
Fausto, it seems that you are the only one answering my doubts, thanks for your time.
Just ended 15´s block today. I noticed nice improvement on deads and dips
15 reps on deadlifts with 190 pounds (15 more pounds than 3 weeks ago)
15 reps with dips with 17 pounds hanging (12 more pounds than 3 weeks ago)
15 reps on bent rows, 115 pounds (10 more pounds than 3 weeks ago)
15 reps on military press - 100 pounds (just 5 more than 3 weeks ago)

I made 2 sets each except military press, i felt my shoulders pretty worned out (tired).
Looking weight improvement, i have more strength, but still think that my lower body strength sux and upper body just average.
 
Ministro

Progress looks excellent, 15's are not normally the place where one verifies this, but if it is evident this early we can look at an excellent program for these 8 weeks.

My opinion? Keep two sets for the 10's as well, going forward as I don't think 3 sets will be manageable seeing that you are feeling tired on some, besides pushing it at this stage would probably slow down your gains.

Why don't you start a log, I promise I'll follow it and guide you where possible!
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I started my 1st cycle of HST and posted a log in the Training Logs section, however I've gotten a few responses from RUFF suggesting I cut down the current routine I have which is composed of 6 compounds and 3 iso's which I do at the END to a 4 compound workout.

So Fausto - and others -, I'm wondering what your suggestion would be as far as volume goes if I do decide to cut my exercises by half? Right now with my current 9 exercises I plan on doing 1x15, 2x10 and 4x5. My exercises consist of:

A:

Squat
Flat Bench
Chins
Dips
Pull ups
Military Press
1 legged calf raises
Triceps pulldown (rope)
BB Curl

B:

Deadlift
Incline Bench
Chins
Dips
BB Row
Military Press
1 legged calf raises
Triceps pulldown (rope)
BB Curl

I suppose this can be reduced to -->

A:

Squats
Flat Bench
Chins
Military Press

B:

Deadlifts
Dips
BB Row
Upright Row

I'm still debating whether I can include the original iso's at the end of these 4 compounds or not...

Back to my main question though, if I were to reduce my exercises, should I in turn increase the volume per exercise as follows: 2x15, 3x10, 6x5 which comes to 30 reps total per exercise?

I'm already complete with my 1st week of 15s of this 1st cycle, but I don't think it would be too late to change things up a little bit, so that's why I'm trying to get things worked out now before it's time to start week 2 of 15s in 2 days.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">RUFF suggesting I cut down the current routine</div>I think it was Russ, but he is feeling a little 'doggy' at the moment.  
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Volume is going to depend on your level of conditioning to exercise. If you are new to this game then you will be able to 'get away' with less volume in order to trigger a PS response. In any case, you won't need to keep the rep count as high at the end of the cycle (with the heavy loads) as at the beginning.

In view of your reduced exercise selection and assuming you have some zig-zag in your progression, you could try something like this :

Week 1: 2 x 15 (total 30 reps)
Week 2: 2/1.6 x 15 (ie. for your second week of 15s, on Monday do 2 x 15 , on Wednesday do 1 x 15, 1 x 12 and on Friday do 1 x 15 and 1 x 10)
Week 3: 3 x 10
Week 4: 2.5 x 10 (ie. drop down to two and a half sets by the end of the week - 10, 8, 7 would work too and would help with faitgue)
Week 5: 5 x 5
Week 6: 4 x 5 (total 20 reps) (after the first set you may need to cluster reps up to a total of 20).

After week 6 you can continue to increment or just stick with the same loads for a few more weeks. If you continue to up the loads you could do something like 5 x 3 or just cluster after your first set, up to around 15 total reps.

Try to avoid failure on all but your RM workouts (watch out for those second and third sets - it's easy to really push it on those).

You can see that with this set-up you would be dropping volume during the cycle but don't forget that your TUT for each rep will unavoidably increase as the loads get heavier so it won't be changing much overall. (I was going to mention looking at work done over the cycle but I think that will overly complicate things right now which I may have done already!  
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.)

As far as adding isos goes, up to you. As long as you are recovering well between sessions then you could throw them in. Just see how you feel. Perhaps just do a single set for these to save time and your CNS.

All the best with your cycle.
 
Haha yes Russ, my mistake!

But do you think such a volume scheme is really necessary? Couldn't I just try for a total of 30 reps per exercise and just see how my body reacts? This is my first cycle afterall and have no idea to the degree of soreness I would feel. Same thing with the iso's, if they get to be too much I can always cut them out no problem.

Basically the only modification I'm considering doing cutting down my original plan of doing 2 compounds for chest and back in one workout, to just 1 compound per w/o, and I'm still on the fence about this reduction. However I may end up doing is just because I see most of your guys' workouts just have 1 compound per major body part and 2 might get to be too much later on in the cycle.
 
Marko ,

I understand the attachments to iso's and the hesitance to drop them for a few foundation cycles . And I just want you to know that although I will try to talk you out of them - I'm not trying to come across as if doing them will &quot;ruin&quot; your HST experience - it's more a matter of attempting to get the most optimal growth (for you) by directing CNS resources to the most productive movements .
Rows will put loads (typically) up to 300% greater than that possible with curls through a partial range of motion , Chins , although somewhat lesser in load capacity DO utilize full range of motion . Thinking that Bi's will not get sufficient stimulation from these two compounds leads many to try to &quot;fill the gap&quot; with isolation (curls) that in the foundation stages (especially long levered - mechanically disadvantaged curlers - 6ft5 @ 190 - Hello!) would equate to &quot;junk volume&quot; (IMHO). At a certain point iso's WOULD be appropriate for SOME , although SOME are simply &quot;non-responders&quot; so to speak and grow best through compounds thier entire lifting life.
However to optimize everything assuming a curl is STILL used in your routine I would suggest chins (supponated) Rows ( pronated) and that your curls be hammer curls (nuetral) this can cut down to some degree the repetitive stress on what is the weakest link on some of the most productive exersizes for back mass.
As far as tri's you'll get farther load wise, CNS wise and everywise I can think of to alternate dips with Close grip bench if you feel obligated to do something &quot;directly&quot; for them although I would still consider regular bench a better investment for you at this point.
Well , I've said my two cents ... Good luck!
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Marko, my turnto say a bit...notmuch left to say though after both Lol and &quot;Ruff&quot;
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have had their say.

Lol is indeed correct...don't overdo things at this stage, do your cycle with 1 x 15, 1.5(1.6 is probably right with the mix he specifies), I'd just go with 1.5 i.o.w. 1 x 10 and 1 x 5, and 3 x 5, this keeps your cycle with 15 reps all the way.

Ther second suggestion you make for a workout is dandy
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, go as heavy as you possibly can after your two week of 5's and extend for another two weeks, if you want you can even get closer to 3 RM or less, and you will see why we recommend you stick with the recommended 15 reps.

If then that is too little after your first workout (I doubt it
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) go for a second one with a full 30 reps.

Iso's...well, this is like &quot;beating a dead horse&quot;, if you absolutelly insist, throw in a set bi+tris as a superset if you really feel you have enough &quot;vooma&quot; at the end of the workout but it is not necessary...really as Russ pointed out specially for a newbie.
 
Ok ok I'm convinced! I'll reduce my exercises down to the 4 alternating exercises I mentioned before:

A/B :

Squat / Deadlift
Flat Bench / Dips
Chins / BB Row
Military Press / Upright row

And I'll follow the volume Lol recommended, but I think that'll depend on how my body feels once I get to the heavier weights.

Finally, if I alternate the exercises in such an A/B manner, what do I do for the weights on each exercise? Naturally I have different RMs for each pair of alternated exercises...and since I&quot;m doing each exercise only 3x as opposed to the 6x if it were done w/o alternation, do I just use the last 3 increments before the RM's for each exercise?

For instance, if my Squat is a 10RM of 225lbs and my Deadlift is 275lbs, and I do increments of 20lbs, would I start off the 10s mesocycle with Squat at 185 on M, DL at 235 W, Squat 205lbs F, DL 255lbs M, Squat 225 W and DL 275lbs F ?
 
Do each exercise individually, likewise plan them individually (weightwise that is!). The idea is to start at 70 - 75% RM for each mesocycle (eg: if your squat 15 RM is 100 you'd start at 75 and you'll squat 2x week Mon/Fri so 70 (Mo) 80 (Fr) that's week 1, then (90) Mo 100 (Fr) for week 2, then on to 10's and you may get zigzagging, do not...fret, it is normal.

Deads however will be only once p/week and those you can progress 20 or more at a time so if 200 is 15 RM, then 170/200, that make sup week 2, make sense? Hope so
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...cheers
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">A/B :

Squat / Deadlift
Flat Bench / Dips
Chins / BB Row
Military Press / Upright row
</div>

That's almost the same as mine. I changed some things, and I'll tell you why -- just in case it may be helpful...

I do A:

Squat
Bench
Pull Ups
Upright rows

B:

Dead Lift
Military Press
Pendlay Rows
Dips

I put the two rowing movements in different workouts to avoid fatiguing some of the common rowing muscles. For me, my biceps get fried after a lot of rows. To me, that says I may not be effectively working the shoulders (for example) when I get to the upright rows, if they were after the bent over rows.

I also exchanged the order of dips and military press. At the end of the workout, I find that my overhead pressing strength is sappped, but I can dip as though I were completely fresh.

Again, those are personal tweaks, so just consider them.

Oh I forgot ... putting bench and pull ups in the same routine makes for an easy superset -- one has the barbell all set up, the other doesn't need one. Same for rows and dips.
 
I actually decided against upright rows for this cycle since I never found the RM for it before my SD, and am not too keen on guesstimating it. So I think I'll do Military press the whole cycle w/o it being alternated with any other exercise and then just alternate it for my 2nd cycle.

As far as Squats/Deadlifts though, is it ok to do ABA BAB or is deadlifting 2x for that 2nd week too much (hence why fausto suggested only doing DL's 1x/week)?

Order wise, I'd just have to experiment with it, that seems to be more of a personal choice and since this is my 1st cycle, I donno what exercises would tire me out the most yet.
 
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