New Buliking Program

[Old and Grey]

I took most of the summer off and just came back from 2 weeks in the mountains of Montana and found that I had lost about 10 pounds. So, I need to slow bulk back up to 185 at 9% bf over ther next 4 months. Here is my routine.

Mon and Thurs:

Incline bench press
Standing military press
Behind back smith shrugs
Close grip bench press
Chin ups
Seated DB curls
Squats
Neck and Lower back

Tues and Fri:

Dips
French press
Lateral raises
DB shrugs
Seated rows
Deadlifts
Hammer curls
Abs

My reps and volume will be as follows:

Week 1  15 reps, 1 set
Week 2  10 reps, 1 set
Week 3  10 reps, 1 set plus 1 drop set of 10
Week 4    5 reps, 1 set
Week 5    5 reps, 1 set plus 1 drop set of 5
Week 6    5 reps, 1 set plus 2 drop sets of 5  

Mon and Tues in weeks 1, 2 and 4 will be relatively light. Thurs and Fri will be at max. Weeks 3, 5 and 6 will be at max, adjusted upward as strength comes back.

Diet will be my normal emphasizing protein, good fats, complex carbs but heavier pertions over 5 to 6 meals. Only supplementation will be creatine 3.5 grams per day.

Suggestions?

 Comments?  

Criticisms?

 Questions?

ps: I guess I can't edit my typo in the thread title!

 

[scientific muscle]

Why not 3 weeks of 10s and 4 weeks of 5s? That would extend your cycle to 8 weeks instead of 6 weeks. More weeks lifting=more time to grow.

I got the idea from Dan Moore, he suggests a 12 week cycle, because of studies showing that the longer a cycle, the more hyeprtrophy occurs generally.
For example, most trainees gain alot more from a 12 week cycle than from a 6 week cycle. Then again you could also do 2X6 week cycles, but I think steady progression of one cycle is better for hypertrophy.

Other than that your routine looks all around pretty good! MAke sure to eat enough!

 

[Old and Grey]

Good general suggestion SM! I have followed your posts and your thought process is usually spot on with what research has recently shown us.

The reason I prefer a maximum of 6 week cycles is because I am 61 and fatigue (and boredom ) become problems. I usually go for 4 week cycles so a 6 week cycle is actually long for me. My plan is to repeat it after a 10 day SD. In general, however, I agree with Dan's suggestion of longer cycles, especially for younger lifters (i.e., under 50  

 )

Thanks for the input.

 

[scientific muscle]

I am 185 lb.s and 14% bodyfat....I never thought I would see a 61 year old in better shape than me! thanks for embarrassing me O&G!

 

[Lol]

O&G: you know your stuff so this is just a thought:

You say you have lost 10lbs. My guess is that this is lbm rather than fat or a combo of the two? I say this because I am aware that you like to keep your bf levels low throughout the year.

Let's say for the sake of argument that all your holidaying in the hills has burnt off 1 lb of fat and 9 lbs of muscle. Should it not be possible to regain this lost muscle rather more quickly than if you had to develop it for the first time? So when you say 'slow bulk' I would not expect it to take that long. I reckon you could do a quicker bulk to get your size back (over a couple of your shorter cycles) and then spend a bit of time cutting as necessary the following cycle. Then you can do your slow bulk over the rest of the winter and spring.

I only say this because I feel that it is very easy to not eat quite enough if you try to be too accurate with your calorie surplus. Would it not be better to get your size back ASAP and then trim off the little bit of extra fat? I think that's what I would do but I am always eager to hear what you think as you have probably got the t-shirt to prove your point!  

 

[Joe.Muscle]

I kind of agree with Lol.

Why not just eat like hell for 6 weeks...its only 6 weeks and who knows its liable to shock your body and metabolism and you may just grow like a weed!

I have followed you closely too over the years and I agree with your slow bulk ideas...but hey lets change it up and eat...eat and eat...its only 6 weeks out of 52.

 

[Fausto]

O & G

Cannot add much to your setup! Although I must admit I like to work out quite differently on a whole body type fashion each time and not so much with splits. But as you say you get bored and this seems to be working for you!

One thing I like is the slow but sure addition of drop sets as you increase poundage! I like to go that way too!

As for bulking, I don't really like the idea of going too fast myself, so I agree with you there, slow bulk then is the Key word!

Length of workout, I myself prefer to go longer than 8 weeks when my joints allow, but then I am 20 years your junior and I can see the wisdom you use!

My ranting for what its worth!

 

[quadancer]

Granpa! Heheh, I turn 53 this month, so...anyway, all the posts are valid here so far for ya and I agree that you've probably allready worn out the t-shirt!
As for the 'ram and jam' method of bulking, I'd remember that you've been on a calorie deficit, and from what I read, just going over maint. cals is sufficient for now. As you progress, you'll need more and more to achieve gains as you go, so I wouldn't overdo it at the start. You'll probably put on more than the standard "pound a week" at first, due to muscle memory and glycogen loading, water retention and all that. After the, what?, first month, it should slow down?
Good time to take a milestone pic for yourself.

 

[mostlyallan]

SM - extending the cycle is what I usually do (using negs etc) but how do you suggest a 12 weeks cycle? Are the progressive increments small, or does one incremenet as usual (per vanilla), add negs and then increase poundage as and when one feels they can? Or something different?

 

[faz]

if your bulking wouldnt it be better to have 3 large meals,as 6 smaller ones would speed up your metabolism more..plus i would rather have three proper mansize meals

 

[Lifting N Tx]

<div>
(NeeBone @ Sep. 05 2006,08:40)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">SM - extending the cycle is what I usually do (using negs etc) but how do you suggest a 12 weeks cycle? Are the progressive increments small, or does one incremenet as usual (per vanilla), add negs and then increase poundage as and when one feels they can? Or something different?</div>
Not that Scientific Muscle can't answer for himself, as he usually does so quite well, but...

I'm not sure that I've seen Dan propose 12 weeks for standard HST, but the reference plan for his Max-Stim (&quot;MST&quot program does use 12 weeks.

Dan's MST reference spreadsheet is set up in 3 mini-cycles of 4 weeks each, which go from 75% to 110% of your 10, 8, and 6 RM poundages. Using &quot;M-Time&quot; between each rep allows use of quite heavy weights (the ones over 100% or RM), while still completing 20 reps in one long set.

So that longer run with each RM range allows a 12 week cycle while still maintaining decent progression. Of course, like HST, people customize things to their liking.

 

[style]

Hey lifting,
''I'm not sure that I've seen Dan propose 12 weeks for standard HST, but the reference plan for his Max-Stim (&quot;MST&quot program does use 12 weeks.''

I have seen a number of Dans posts indicating his preference for longer cycles, especially when you get to heavier weights, Dan and Bryan seem to think that continuing the cycle is a good idea after you reach say your 5RM, feeling that you can continue to gain with the heavy weight for a while. i hope I have interpreted them correctly

. Of course, enthusiasm and joints are another matter

 

[Old and Grey]

Wow. A lot of feedback!

LOL/Joe I haven't measured how much fat/muscle I have lost. I usually go about 300kcal over maintenance but will up that to 500 over until I hit the 185 pound mark and then adjust to whatever I need to bring my bf back to where I want it. I don't like to bulk too fast as I believe that yoyo type of bulking/cutting is tough on the internal organs. I expect that I will gain the weight back in 2 months and then take another 2 months to readjust my bf % although I may get lucky and not have to adjust it much.

Fausto. I am not sure that I understand your comment about prefering to work your body &quot;whole body type fashion each time and not so much with splits.&quot; My workouts are meant to be whole body each time and working out 4 times per week. However, there is a mix of two different exercises within those 4 workouts because I still believe in the old fashion notion of mixing it up somewhat. Probably something akin to teaching old dogs new tricks or something.

Faz. I like to keep my engine running fast so I don't pick up a lot of fat. Plus, overeating makes me feel a bit sluggish and I don't need more excuses to cover up my inate laziness.  

Since I picked up my usual bronchial infection when flying domestically, I have decided to wait until next Monday to start. Or, is that yet another excuse to cover up my sluggishness? Hmmmmm.  

  If I fail to start Monday, somebody please kick-start me.  

 

[Lifting N Tx]

<div>
(style @ Sep. 05 2006,12:10)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hey lifting,
''I'm not sure that I've seen Dan propose 12 weeks for standard HST, but the reference plan for his Max-Stim (&quot;MST&quot program does use 12 weeks.''

I have seen a number of Dans posts indicating his preference for longer cycles, especially when you get to heavier weights, Dan and Bryan seem to think that continuing the cycle is a good idea after you reach say your 5RM, feeling that you can continue to gain with the heavy weight for a while. i hope I have interpreted them correctly

. Of course, enthusiasm and joints are another matter</div>
I agree about extending the cycle. I was referring to setting up a cycle as a 12 week cycle from the start, and just didn't say it very clearly.

I think that you are interpreting correctly, I'm pretty sure that I've seen Dan (probably Bryan also) refer to research indicating that it's possible for the benefits from the same weight to continue for perhaps 4 weeks or more. So if you're still gaining and not hurting extending is generally a good idea.

 

[scientific muscle]

Yeah, what Lifting N Tx said!
that is what I meant by doing a 12-week cycle, the standard maxstim cycle. HST could easily be set up for 12 weeks also, 2 weeks of 15s, 4 weeks of 10s, 4 weeks of 5s, 2 weeks of negatives! You could do it two ways...smaller increments OR just repeat some of the weights, either way would be effective.

 

[Joe.Muscle]

<div>
(Old and Grey @ Sep. 05 2006,14:51)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">However, there is a mix of two different exercises within those 4 workouts because I still believe in the old fashion notion of mixing it up somewhat. Probably something akin to teaching old dogs new tricks or something.

</div>
Me too O&amp;G which leads me to this...not sure if Dan Moore is following this thread hopefully so.

I recently sent dan and email talking about working the &quot;abs&quot; from different angles.

WE know the abs are all one muscle so there is no lower or upper.

His reponse was right on say that yes you can't isolate upper or lower...however he said different exercises may recruit some other fibers. &quot;I hope I am explaining this correctlys&quot;.

Which would raise the question that I did not ask him...but with that line of thinking I would think that switching the exercise up ever so often would or &quot;could&quot; be beneficial b/c maybe...just...maybe you recruit some fibers that you normally wouldn't recruit from standard motor patterns?

Just a thougth...?

 

[Joe.Muscle]

Of course I am saying this above statement...meaning it could recruit more fibers for abs...chest...back, etc?

 

[Old and Grey]

Joe, I agree that you cannot totally isolate muscles within a specific muscle group such as chest, arms or abs. However, you can recruit some fibers more intensely than other fibers by changing exercises, angles, etc. Thus a person who does only incline bench presses will have a larger upper chest musculature than a person who performs only decline bench presses. I am sure that there are people who would refute that but MRI studies that determine the effectiveness of various exercises seem to support this.

This can be done within a cycle or by changing exercises in subsequent cycles. I do not switch up exercises each day of the week but do switch no more than 50% of the time within a week as it easier to measure strength improvements that way. Not changing exercises within a cycle but changing them in subsequent cycles may be even more effective in measuring strength gains but I like the variety provided by changing within a cycle to fight boredom, keep my muscles guessing as to what I am going to ask them to do and to get more uniform results within a cycle even if I am sacrificing some small gains by doing it this way.

BTW, this will be the start of my 32nd cycle and the results have been fantastic. My only change is that once or twice a year I may do a short (4 weeks) cycle of a 5X5 program for strength each year. You need strength to get big and you need to get big to have strength although there is some evidence that suggests that size may not be as important for creating pure neural strength. But who wants to be skinny and strong or big and weak?

 

[quadancer]

<div>
(faz @ Sep. 05 2006,10:04)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">if your bulking wouldnt it be better to have 3 large meals,as 6 smaller ones would speed up your metabolism more..plus i would rather have three proper mansize meals

</div>
Of course 6-8 meals will speed up your metabolism more than 3 a day. But basically, unless virtually ALL the trainers and BB'ers out here are wrong, then you can go into catabolism easier on 3 meals for one thing, and secondly, if you're bulking, gaining fat is the enemy. Therefore, the faster metabolism is going to burn fat, allowing you to eat more, gain more. (beef)
Better to be a grazer than a gulper IMO.

 

[Lifting N Tx]

<div>
(Joe.Muscle @ Sep. 05 2006,18:30)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">His reponse was right on say that yes you can't isolate upper or lower...however he said different exercises may recruit some other fibers. &quot;I hope I am explaining this correctlys&quot;.</div>
Interesting question, Joe. Can an exercise can recruit part of a muscle more strongly? Supposedly not, from what I've read some places.

Not sure what Dan meant, as I believe that the research indicates that all fibers will be recruited at about 70% of the RM for the reps being used...or something like that. Maybe he meant something like what O&amp;G mentioned. However, upper vs. lower pecs is really two different muscles, and different exercises may work both, but may favor one over the other. I'm not sure if you are thinking more like that, or more like what I'm wondering, which I'll explain below.

The sort of thing that I am thinking of would, I believe involve a fiber being recruited, but perhaps more strongly in one portion than another. I suppose the tension would be the same, but the contraction stronger in one part than another. Anecdotally, if I perform curls such that more of the resistance is with the muscle in a more contracted position, then I &quot;feel it&quot; more in the upper section of the bicep (closer to my shoulder).

However, I'm not up enough on the science to know if this makes sense.