Muscle gain per year.
- Thread starter Avi1985
- Start date
It varies way too much to say anything definitive. If you are new to training, you eat right and train well, you can gain a lot more than 15 lbs in your first year. If you have been training for over a decade, you probably can't even gain 15 in a year without hitting the drugs.
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(Totentanz @ Dec. 30 2006,16:10)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">It varies way too much to say anything definitive. If you are new to training, you eat right and train well, you can gain a lot more than 15 lbs in your first year. If you have been training for over a decade, you probably can't even gain 15 in a year without hitting the drugs.</div>
I agree, too hard to tell.
But, just me being me, I'll also say that Michael Rennie believes that if all is optimal one could add 20% muscle in ~ 20 weeks. Also when looking at some of the protein synthesis studies it can be deduced that each workout that accomplishes a 2 to 3 fold increase in PS can acheive a net protein accretion of 26 grams of muscle protein. So using simple math and assuming all is optimal (big big assumption).
26 grams X 3 workouts per week X 52 yields about 4 kg (9 lbs) of muscle tissue/yr.
(Totentanz @ Dec. 30 2006,16:10)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">It varies way too much to say anything definitive. If you are new to training, you eat right and train well, you can gain a lot more than 15 lbs in your first year. If you have been training for over a decade, you probably can't even gain 15 in a year without hitting the drugs.</div>
I agree, too hard to tell.
But, just me being me, I'll also say that Michael Rennie believes that if all is optimal one could add 20% muscle in ~ 20 weeks. Also when looking at some of the protein synthesis studies it can be deduced that each workout that accomplishes a 2 to 3 fold increase in PS can acheive a net protein accretion of 26 grams of muscle protein. So using simple math and assuming all is optimal (big big assumption).
26 grams X 3 workouts per week X 52 yields about 4 kg (9 lbs) of muscle tissue/yr.
That's very interesting Dan and it does make sense although, of course, it is only an estimate. Might there be some other gains that are non-fat? Bone and tendon thickening perhaps? Minimal increae I suppose. I only ask this because otherwise I just added around 35 lbs of fat this year (eeek!) which doesn't seem to be the case to me. It'll be interesting to see what happens during my present cutting cycle.
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(Lol @ Jan. 10 2007,09:13)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">That's very interesting Dan and it does make sense although, of course, it is only an estimate. Might there be some other gains that are non-fat?
I only ask this because otherwise I just added around 35 lbs of fat this year (eeek!) which doesn't seem to be the case to me. It'll be interesting to see what happens during my present cutting cycle.
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Sure, I mean you have other non protein changes coming along with that. Glycogen, Water, Bone density, collagen proteins, and so forth.
Well let's say you are a common human, I know you aren't but for argument sake
, a common partitioning ratio is around 60/40 fat/lean, let's say training shifts this to 50/50 so of the 44 lbs you've gained we can assume that 22 lbs is lean tissue. If training increases the lean tissue depostion more or your partitioning is greater towards lean mass then even better (which I am hoping it does, just dunno).
(Lol @ Jan. 10 2007,09:13)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">That's very interesting Dan and it does make sense although, of course, it is only an estimate. Might there be some other gains that are non-fat?
I only ask this because otherwise I just added around 35 lbs of fat this year (eeek!) which doesn't seem to be the case to me. It'll be interesting to see what happens during my present cutting cycle.
Sure, I mean you have other non protein changes coming along with that. Glycogen, Water, Bone density, collagen proteins, and so forth.
Well let's say you are a common human, I know you aren't but for argument sake
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(quadancer @ Jan. 10 2007,09:15)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I've noticed that even the 'roiders consider five lbs. a good year. I'd be happy with five!</div>
This is true and that's because as you well know, the more trained you are the harder to gain lean mass.
Top that off with age, hormone levels and all the other "pea soup" constituents, it definately gets tougher.
(quadancer @ Jan. 10 2007,09:15)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I've noticed that even the 'roiders consider five lbs. a good year. I'd be happy with five!</div>
This is true and that's because as you well know, the more trained you are the harder to gain lean mass.
Top that off with age, hormone levels and all the other "pea soup" constituents, it definately gets tougher.
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(Dan Moore @ Jan. 10 2007,14:27)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Lol @ Jan. 10 2007,09:13)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">That's very interesting Dan and it does make sense although, of course, it is only an estimate. Might there be some other gains that are non-fat?
I only ask this because otherwise I just added around 35 lbs of fat this year (eeek!) which doesn't seem to be the case to me. It'll be interesting to see what happens during my present cutting cycle.
</div>
Sure, I mean you have other non protein changes coming along with that. Glycogen, Water, Bone density, collagen proteins, and so forth.
Well let's say you are a common human, I know you aren't but for argument sake
, a common partitioning ratio is around 60/40 fat/lean, let's say training shifts this to 50/50 so of the 44 lbs you've gained we can assume that 22 lbs is lean tissue. If training increases the lean tissue depostion more or your partitioning is greater towards lean mass then even better (which I am hoping it does, just dunno).</div>
OK, thanks Dan. I feel a whole lot better now!
I was hoping on around a 50:50 split. I'm going to try to lose 20lbs before bulking again and hope that most of it will be the fatty stuff.
(Dan Moore @ Jan. 10 2007,14:27)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Lol @ Jan. 10 2007,09:13)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">That's very interesting Dan and it does make sense although, of course, it is only an estimate. Might there be some other gains that are non-fat?
I only ask this because otherwise I just added around 35 lbs of fat this year (eeek!) which doesn't seem to be the case to me. It'll be interesting to see what happens during my present cutting cycle.
Sure, I mean you have other non protein changes coming along with that. Glycogen, Water, Bone density, collagen proteins, and so forth.
Well let's say you are a common human, I know you aren't but for argument sake
OK, thanks Dan. I feel a whole lot better now!
I was hoping on around a 50:50 split. I'm going to try to lose 20lbs before bulking again and hope that most of it will be the fatty stuff.
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(Lol @ Jan. 10 2007,10:11)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I was hoping on around a 50:50 split. I'm going to try to lose 20lbs before bulking again and hope that most of it will be the fatty stuff.</div>
When cutting the fatter you are the more fat will be impacted. But this slides as you become leaner.
What's funny, in a non ha ha way, is how thermogenesis is largely regulated by fat mass, so as you lose fat, even if muscle is preserved your BMR is still going to slow down, making it harder to continually lose fat without further reductions in energy balance. Which of course will have more of an impact on lean mass as well. So it's a catch 22.
If done right I would bet for better than a 50:50 though
(Lol @ Jan. 10 2007,10:11)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I was hoping on around a 50:50 split. I'm going to try to lose 20lbs before bulking again and hope that most of it will be the fatty stuff.</div>
When cutting the fatter you are the more fat will be impacted. But this slides as you become leaner.
What's funny, in a non ha ha way, is how thermogenesis is largely regulated by fat mass, so as you lose fat, even if muscle is preserved your BMR is still going to slow down, making it harder to continually lose fat without further reductions in energy balance. Which of course will have more of an impact on lean mass as well. So it's a catch 22.
If done right I would bet for better than a 50:50 though
Muscle Memory definitely helps - within my 1st year of HST, I gained about 27 lbs of muscle, slightly over half giving credit to MM. Halfway through my 2nd year of HST, I have gained about 9 pounds of muscle, which if I stay on track, I am due for an 18 lb gain w/o help of MM or AAS. Dan commented about age being a factor, and that may help me since I have been 20-21 years old during this span.
bluejacket
New Member
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(Totentanz @ Jan. 15 2007,21:30)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">27lbs isn't that big of a deal, unless you've been training for more than a couple years, assuming you have your diet and training dialed in. That's about how much I gained my first year of HST.</div>
27lb gain in 1 yr for a new lifter is good, but is attainable by most who are willing to dedicate themselves to a good w/o and diet program.
27lb MUSCLE gain in year is a big deal and probably means an overall gain (fat, muscle, water, etc) of close to if not over 40lbs. im sure its possible for new lifters to achieve this, it just takes serious hard work and a certain amount of good fortune to discover an effective w/o and diet prog. right out of the gate. finding all 3 of these (and applying them) when just begining lifting is rare indeed.
(Totentanz @ Jan. 15 2007,21:30)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">27lbs isn't that big of a deal, unless you've been training for more than a couple years, assuming you have your diet and training dialed in. That's about how much I gained my first year of HST.</div>
27lb gain in 1 yr for a new lifter is good, but is attainable by most who are willing to dedicate themselves to a good w/o and diet program.
27lb MUSCLE gain in year is a big deal and probably means an overall gain (fat, muscle, water, etc) of close to if not over 40lbs. im sure its possible for new lifters to achieve this, it just takes serious hard work and a certain amount of good fortune to discover an effective w/o and diet prog. right out of the gate. finding all 3 of these (and applying them) when just begining lifting is rare indeed.
I don't know, some people are Inclined to gain Muscle rather easily. My buddy put on 25 pounds in 8 weeks [no drugs] just eating and lifting heavy. He had the genes for it. Of course, he was also playing football and needed to gain weight. he still sat around 10-12% bf, and he couldn't tell you what a good diet was.He wasn't using an hst program, or any specific program at all.
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(bluejacket @ Jan. 16 2007,01:38)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Totentanz @ Jan. 15 2007,21:30)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">27lbs isn't that big of a deal, unless you've been training for more than a couple years, assuming you have your diet and training dialed in. That's about how much I gained my first year of HST.</div>
27lb gain in 1 yr for a new lifter is good, but is attainable by most who are willing to dedicate themselves to a good w/o and diet program.
27lb MUSCLE gain in year is a big deal and probably means an overall gain (fat, muscle, water, etc) of close to if not over 40lbs. im sure its possible for new lifters to achieve this, it just takes serious hard work and a certain amount of good fortune to discover an effective w/o and diet prog. right out of the gate. finding all 3 of these (and applying them) when just begining lifting is rare indeed.</div>
Unless I had serious errors within my bodyfat measurement, and looking bad I know I didn't, then 27 lbs of muscle was the gain in my first year. This is all due to:
1) Muscle Memory (just came off a huge cut that was too much)
2) New to HST
3) Semi-new to lifting
(bluejacket @ Jan. 16 2007,01:38)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Totentanz @ Jan. 15 2007,21:30)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">27lbs isn't that big of a deal, unless you've been training for more than a couple years, assuming you have your diet and training dialed in. That's about how much I gained my first year of HST.</div>
27lb gain in 1 yr for a new lifter is good, but is attainable by most who are willing to dedicate themselves to a good w/o and diet program.
27lb MUSCLE gain in year is a big deal and probably means an overall gain (fat, muscle, water, etc) of close to if not over 40lbs. im sure its possible for new lifters to achieve this, it just takes serious hard work and a certain amount of good fortune to discover an effective w/o and diet prog. right out of the gate. finding all 3 of these (and applying them) when just begining lifting is rare indeed.</div>
Unless I had serious errors within my bodyfat measurement, and looking bad I know I didn't, then 27 lbs of muscle was the gain in my first year. This is all due to:
1) Muscle Memory (just came off a huge cut that was too much)
2) New to HST
3) Semi-new to lifting
bluejacket
New Member
colby,
what where your numbers? what wgt and % did you start out at and the same for what you finished?
what where your numbers? what wgt and % did you start out at and the same for what you finished?
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(bluejacket @ Jan. 16 2007,15:37)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">colby,
what where your numbers? what wgt and % did you start out at and the same for what you finished?</div>
June 2005
Weight: 170
BF%: 14.5
LBM: 145
June 2006
Weight: 196
BF%: 12
LBM: 172.5
and if you were interested...
January 2007
Weight: 235
BF% 16
LBM: 197.4
I know, it seems crazy... but until the recent post-surgery fat gain, I have gained muscle fairly steady while staying trim
(bluejacket @ Jan. 16 2007,15:37)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">colby,
what where your numbers? what wgt and % did you start out at and the same for what you finished?</div>
June 2005
Weight: 170
BF%: 14.5
LBM: 145
June 2006
Weight: 196
BF%: 12
LBM: 172.5
and if you were interested...
January 2007
Weight: 235
BF% 16
LBM: 197.4
I know, it seems crazy... but until the recent post-surgery fat gain, I have gained muscle fairly steady while staying trim
<div>
(bluejacket @ Jan. 16 2007,01:38)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Totentanz @ Jan. 15 2007,21:30)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">27lbs isn't that big of a deal, unless you've been training for more than a couple years, assuming you have your diet and training dialed in. That's about how much I gained my first year of HST.</div>
27lb gain in 1 yr for a new lifter is good, but is attainable by most who are willing to dedicate themselves to a good w/o and diet program.
27lb MUSCLE gain in year is a big deal and probably means an overall gain (fat, muscle, water, etc) of close to if not over 40lbs. im sure its possible for new lifters to achieve this, it just takes serious hard work and a certain amount of good fortune to discover an effective w/o and diet prog. right out of the gate. finding all 3 of these (and applying them) when just begining lifting is rare indeed.</div>
You're right, of course. It is a pretty big deal, I kind of downplayed it a bit... You really do have to have your training and diet dialed in just right to get those kind of results in your first year... though to be honest, I've heard of lifters who were doing it all wrong and getting crap results for years, and when they finally figured out that you have to eat enough and train intelligently they had results that were similar for a while.
(bluejacket @ Jan. 16 2007,01:38)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Totentanz @ Jan. 15 2007,21:30)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">27lbs isn't that big of a deal, unless you've been training for more than a couple years, assuming you have your diet and training dialed in. That's about how much I gained my first year of HST.</div>
27lb gain in 1 yr for a new lifter is good, but is attainable by most who are willing to dedicate themselves to a good w/o and diet program.
27lb MUSCLE gain in year is a big deal and probably means an overall gain (fat, muscle, water, etc) of close to if not over 40lbs. im sure its possible for new lifters to achieve this, it just takes serious hard work and a certain amount of good fortune to discover an effective w/o and diet prog. right out of the gate. finding all 3 of these (and applying them) when just begining lifting is rare indeed.</div>
You're right, of course. It is a pretty big deal, I kind of downplayed it a bit... You really do have to have your training and diet dialed in just right to get those kind of results in your first year... though to be honest, I've heard of lifters who were doing it all wrong and getting crap results for years, and when they finally figured out that you have to eat enough and train intelligently they had results that were similar for a while.
bluejacket
New Member
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(colby2152 @ Jan. 16 2007,20:29)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">June 2005
Weight: 170
BF%: 14.5
LBM: 145
June 2006
Weight: 196
BF%: 12
LBM: 172.5
and if you were interested...
January 2007
Weight: 235
BF% 16
LBM: 197.4
I know, it seems crazy... but until the recent post-surgery fat gain, I have gained muscle fairly steady while staying trim</div>
12 months.........26lb gain.........27.5lb muscle gain........1.5lb fat loss.
"i have gained muscle fairly steady while staying trim." is a bit of an understatement. did you bulk to a higher wgt and cut down or did you just try to gain straight thru?
(colby2152 @ Jan. 16 2007,20:29)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">June 2005
Weight: 170
BF%: 14.5
LBM: 145
June 2006
Weight: 196
BF%: 12
LBM: 172.5
and if you were interested...
January 2007
Weight: 235
BF% 16
LBM: 197.4
I know, it seems crazy... but until the recent post-surgery fat gain, I have gained muscle fairly steady while staying trim</div>
12 months.........26lb gain.........27.5lb muscle gain........1.5lb fat loss.
"i have gained muscle fairly steady while staying trim." is a bit of an understatement. did you bulk to a higher wgt and cut down or did you just try to gain straight thru?