Discussion in 'Basic Training Principles and Methods' started by shakeel, Apr 22, 2003.

  1. shakeel

    shakeel New Member

  2. jkismul

    jkismul New Member

    hey, you've read the new encyclopaedia of bodybuilding by arnold, right? :)

    i use this as my shoulder exercise, because it doesn't trouble my shoulders or elbows(as the behind neck presses do)
    mostly targets the front and middle dealtoids, i believe.

    but personally, i lower it down to my chest for greater ROM.
  3. shakeel

    shakeel New Member

  4. micmic

    micmic New Member

    What more advice ? jkismul said everything that there is to be said. I also like upright row with dumbbells.
  5. Pauly

    Pauly New Member

    The reason you would only lower the bar to the top of your head is because of the changing role of front and side delts through the range of motion.

    At the lower end of a full ROM (below the top of your head) the side delts contribute little to the lift, so the load is placed primarily on the front delts through this portion of the lift. As the bar is raised beyond this point, the side delts contribute more to the lift.

    Using a full ROM limits the weight that can be used to that which can be handled by the front delts only during the lower portion of the lift.

    If you want to hit the side delts hard, then limit the ROM somewhat to that which incorporates the side delts through the entire lift (albeit a slightly reduced ROM). The reduced ROM and the fact that both front and side delts are contributing through the entire lift allows more weight to be used - more tension = more growth.

    Since I started doing it this way, my side delts have 'popped out' more than in any other cycle. For me this way works the side delts really well and Ill definitely be sticking with this movement in future cycles.

    Another way of looking at this is to look at the ROM of the BNP. During this movement the bar is naturally lowered to a point somewhere level with the middle of the head, and this movement is well known to hit the side delts better than the front press. Maybe this is why?
  6. micmic

    micmic New Member

    What activates the anterior deltoids is not so much the lowering of the bar below head level, but bringing it to the front, as anterior deltoids are responsible for arm flexion (and in a much lesser extent arm abduction).

    So, if one would like to target lateral deltoids with lesser focus in the anterior ones, he should select a movement that doesn't bring the weight much to the front, like dumbbell presses (not Arnold presses), lateral raises and upright row.

    As you can see when performing dumbbell presses, lateral deltoids do not contribute little to the lift when the dumbbells are at the lowest point. Lateral deltoids are still doing most of the work, since they are the main muscle group that vertically abducts the arm.

    In the same way that doing partial biceps curls allows more weight, so do partial military presses. But this doesn't mean they are more productive.
  7. micmic

    micmic New Member

    As a side note, the main reason that half military presses allow for more weight, is that when the bar is above the head the triceps are also heavily involved. In fact, after a certain point the exercise becomes more of an elbow extension than an arm abduction. So, the best way to isolate lateral deltoids would indeed be a half press, only that it would be ...the other half: In dumbbell presses, start from the lowest point and raise the dumbbells roughly to the point where you humerus is parallel to the ground.

    So: if it is one point we should avoid during military presses, this is the highest point of the movement because the tension is removed from shoulders and shifted towards triceps (much like fully extending arms in bench press). Instead, many people advocate half presses only because it allows for heavier weights...
  8. Kate

    Kate New Member

    [​IMG] I'm with micmic on this one. I have used militaries almost exclusively for HST with good results. I do a lot of rotator cuff work to keep the shoulders happy.

    One of the things I really like about them is that as I get to the end of my fives and the weight gets heavy enough, my body adds a little push at the bottom without my even really trying for it. By the time I get to the negatives I have a nice push press going.

    FYI, a true military press is always done to the front with a barbell in a standing position. They used to be done with feet close together which is why they are called militaries. A shoulder width stance will give you a lot more stability and less stress on the lower back.

    Here's to boulders for shoulders!
  9. jsraaf

    jsraaf New Member

    What I gleaned from the above was:

    - partial militiaries (not going lower than top of head area) are better for isolating the lateral delts, and allow greater weight to be used
    - full ROM militaries will hit both lateral & anterior, but at different points in the lift - going below the head to the chest it's the anterior, above the head it's lateral

    So in the above discussion are we saying that full ROM militaries are the best way to go for overall shoulder (anterior & lateral) development, provided that at the top of the lift lockout of the elbows is avoided?

    This is of particular interest to me personally, as shoulders are a very weak spot & one I really want to beef up, both in terms of size and strength. FWIW, I am currently doing incline DB bench/dips, with full ROM militaries (seated, on Smith machine) as my only shoulder movement.
  10. micmic

    micmic New Member

    No, read my previous post. It's the other half of the movement that better isolates lateral deltoids, and only if you use dumbbells. If you use a bar the anterior deltoids work heavily when the bar is in front of your face.

    Yes, but I would still rotate exercises. Ok, maybe 2 cycles on - 1 off.
  11. shakeel

    shakeel New Member


  12. shakeel

    shakeel New Member

  13. Kate

    Kate New Member

    Hi, Shakeel!

    I do a full range of motion on my militaries. My shoulder blades are locked down and back, my chest is elevated and my elbows are in and forward just a little so that they are under the bar.

    When I was learning to do overhead squats, I was taught to apply pressure outward on the bar, as if I were trying to pull it apart. Lately I've been doing the same thing for my military presses.

    Something about that "pulling the bar apart" seems to keep my shoulders in a strong, painfree position.

  14. shakeel

    shakeel New Member

  15. Blade

    Blade Super Moderator Staff Member

    I've only been doing side- and bent-over laterals my last couple of cycles. The partial OHP is good, but why not experiment and see what you like better?
  16. shakeel

    shakeel New Member

  17. shakeel

    shakeel New Member


  18. tai4ji2x

    tai4ji2x New Member

    umm... why-are-you-writing-like-this? [​IMG]
  19. shakeel

    shakeel New Member

  20. shakeel

    shakeel New Member

    what is your opinion on military lowering to top of the head?

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