Lats - once and for all

I

imported_ef666ef

Guest
I’d be very thankful for some expert tips of what lat exercise to use in my HST program (I only do 1 exercise per body part, so it’s important to choose the right one ). I’ve searched through this forum and others, but am still confused.

1. Equipment
Should I
a) raise my body (+extra weights if needed) holding a fixed bar, or
b) use a pull-machine where my body is fixed in a seated position?
People seem to prefer 1a (why? 1b takes shorter time to set up with extra weights), but what could possible be different between these two approaches?

2. Grip
Should I use
(for both 1a and 1b above)
a) a bar, wide grip, palms away from body
b) a bar, narrow grip, palms away from body
c) a bar, narrow grip, palms towards body
d) a handle, very narrow grip, palms facing each other, or
(only for 1b above)
e) lats-isolation pullover straps like http://www.maxcontraction.com/max_straps.htm?

3. Hooks
For option 2a-2d above, should I use lifting hooks like http://www.precisiontraining.com/hooks.cfm? (-No, I’m not into SCT, but these hooks prevents my forearms to give up before my lats do. That’s a mixed blessing though – greater lats workout but less compound factor. Is it a fair trade-off in this case?)

4. ROM
I’m all in favor of full ROM, but in the lats case I’ve to ask the question – full ROM for exactly what muscle? Am I not targeting the lats entire ROM if I just stretch my arms and shoulders as high as possible (so that my shoulders are at my ears) and then just pull my shoulders down with my lats (my arms still straight up) with a resulting movement of just a few inches? What is the point, from the lats point of view, to continue pulling your arms towards the body? Does that increase the lats ROM or is it just for compound effects? And if so, is it worth the trade-off?

/Best regards and thanks for the best forum on the net
 
Chins. I do deads as well, but that covers more than just the lats.

I wouldn't worry so much about all the little details either, just lift it. Find your groove, enjoy it, go for the ride. And push the weights. = )
 
As far as grip is concerned for chins.. wide will stretch your lats better and hit the triceps, and a close grip will focus on the biceps a lot. If you want to specialize a muscle, that's the way to do it. As Lance mentioned, don't stress about the details.. focus on a solid routine and good diet and you will rewarded.
 
I favour a wide grip, palms away for BB rows and chins. But alternating with palms toward (hitting biceps more) prob. wouldn't make a difference.
 
Chins mate.

No arguments about it.

To hit all sides alternate 1 wide palms facing out/1 close grip palms facing in.

Weights attached from the 10's onwards, if you can do that fromthe 15's we will take our hats off of course
laugh.gif


1b) is IMO a sissy option as it is not a real pullup, plus it helps out with th extra weight, try option 1a).
laugh.gif


The hooks should be good, let us know how they work, but you should only use them when the weights are hooooge
laugh.gif


Full ROM is always better in compounds, but there is a certain trade off once the weights get heavy to a slight reduction in the ROM to at least the effective range, stretched position.

Ciao, hope you enjoy HST
thumbs-up.gif
 
Yup, chins are vastly superior to lat pulldowns. A wider grip will hit your lats more, but it's perfectly fine to use a narrower grip if you can't crank out enough reps with a wide grip, or if you're doing multiple sets and can't hit your numbers after the first set. Mixing it up with your hand position is also a good way to hit different parts of your back.

The hooks are an option if your forearms tend conk out early, but I'd try to gradually phase 'em out if I were you. You don't want to develop a dependence on things like that, and your forearms won't get the benefit of the work if you give them too much assistance.
 
Ok, so this topic has been covered in the past, so I will pass on the info that I got from the experts at the time (Vicious and Bryan, I believe).

Close grip chins will actually provide the most stretch, not wide grip. There are, however, reasons to do both (although I don't remember why any more), and if you check Bryan's routine in the FAQ section, I think you'll find that he does wide and narrow grip for all of his back exercises.

I personally prefer chins, mostly because it provides the easiest way to do very heavy negatives.

As for the ROM question, if you check out the shape of the muscle, the lats look like a letter J. That means that the line of pull goes down AND back (toward the spine). By flexing the elbows and pulling them down and back toward your sides, you are (assuming you are doing them properly and activating the lats) completing the ROM -- pulling down and pinching back.

In my experience the lats need A LOT of stimulation. Maybe its just a weak area for me, but I have to do twice as much to get my back to grow as for any other part of my body. Soooooo, ..... Enjoy. ;)
 
Dan suggests using a close grip, palms facing toward you, because you can move a lot more weight with that grip.

Personally, I find that the only thing that really gets my lats growing is heavy negatives on chins. I like overhanded grip more than underhanded, but I switch it up when doing negs. This cycle, I'm experimenting. I'm moving on to negs early with chins, while still doing the last week of 5s on everything else, to see if that will get better growth in my lats. I'm also going to keep the negs going as long as can.

Actually, if I remember correctly, Bryan has actually stated that heavy negatives on chins are the best lat builder. Or maybe I'm just "remembering" that out of thin air to support my statement. Heh.
 
No, I'm pretty sure you're right, Totentanz. And, anecdotally, it has been my experience as well. The lats are just so big and strong that its hard to get enough load on them (since the other muscles involved give out first). The only way seems to be heavy negatives.

Someone around here (might be vicious?) also believes very strongly in pullover machines. Unfortunately, I don't have access.
 
Close grip, palms facing or away allow the fullest ROM. My reasoning for close grip palms facing you is it allows greater load on the biceps.

Pullovers are great for isolating the lats, if using a bar causes shoulder impingement issues try using a neutral grip on a bare plate instead, or use DBs.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (semajes @ Dec. 03 2005,1:55)]Someone around here (might be vicious?) also believes very strongly in pullover machines. Unfortunately, I don't have access.
Click to expand...
I know vicious advocates db pullovers as a stretch point exercise for the back and the pullover machine for pulse reps
 
It's also worth pointing out that, just from a leverage standpoint, wide grip is harder than narrow (less range of motion but more load). In fact, you get the most mechanical load with your arms completely straight out, doing something like the "iron cross" routine that gymnasts do on rings.

It's the old lever-and-fulcrum thing, in other words.

This is why people with short limbs are more suited to gymnastics. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top