Initialising growth

[mostlyallan]

I thought I had a fairly crumby cycle just gone. i did 2x15s, 2x10 but only did 1x5 due to unforseen circumstances. However, I still managed +.75 on arms and +1 on legs (I also only managed to put on 5lbs).

I think this is pretty good for such a poor cycle. I was looking at dumping the 15s and just doing 10s and extending the 5s - then gradually upping the weight until I run out of reps.

My question is, does the body need a kind of saturation point as far a training to get muscle growth consistent . ie. does it take a certain period of time before muscle growth starts to become consistent (say a week) or does muscle start growing as soon as you hit the weight (well afterwards).

Hope that question makes sense. I'm just trying to gauge if theres a sort of "introductory period" before muscle growth really takes off in a cycle.

 

[imported_dkm1987]

The results of consistent chronic stimulation are going to give you far better results than haphazard. The time frame to see consistent results depends on you and your consistency.

Muscle tissue begins to respond immediately upon loading. But not all events happen immediately some are more latent.

Introductory periods? Depends on how long since you've trained or incorporated new movements. In an untrained state the initial gains of strength are mostly neural efficiency increases. Once past the training period hypertrophy takes a larger role. But also remember that hypertrophy is a slow process and takes a while before the accrual becomes noticeable by passer byers.

 

[mostlyallan]

Quote[/b] (dkm1987 @ Dec. 05 2005,3:26)]The results of consistent chronic stimulation are going to give you far better results than haphazard. The time frame to see consistent results depends on you and your consistency.
Muscle tissue begins to respond immediately upon loading. But not all events happen immediately some are more latent.
Introductory periods? Depends on how long since you've trained or incorporated new movements. In an untrained state the initial gains of strength are mostly neural efficiency increases. Once past the training period hypertrophy takes a larger role. But also remember that hypertrophy is a slow process and takes a while before the accrual becomes noticeable by passer byers.

So it may be a good idea to do at least 1 week 15s just to get the system going I guess. No harm done in any case.

 

[imported_dkm1987]

The 15's are good for increasing your exercise tolerance and increase mitochondrial oxidative efficiency. They also are good for increasing lactic acid buildup and hence flushing the tendons, some works showing this is benficial to healing. One the other hand it appears likely that collagen synthesis (both ECM and Tendenous) are upregulated right along with the other proteins (although they aren't as food responsive) with loading. So to use 15's or not, your call.

Either way it is still the chronic application of loading that gets results and whatever molecular items that happen with an acute bout aren't going to add a buttload of mass. Time, patience and consistency are.

 

[Conciliator]

I forgot the reference, but growth can occur for the first few months without a change in the diameter of the muscle fibers. In other words, the muscle is growing, but becoming denser rather than larger. After a few months of training, the diameter will begin to increase. Anyone have anything more on this?

 

[faz]

dont know if anyone has ever mentioned this before but i find mentaly when i have done the 15s the 10s and 5s are much easier..so i think this allows me to use more weight..dont know if some of the other guys feel the same.

 

[imported_dkm1987]

Quote[/b] (Conciliator @ Dec. 05 2005,8:20)]I forgot the reference, but growth can occur for the first few months without a change in the diameter of the muscle fibers.  In other words, the muscle is growing, but becoming denser rather than larger.  After a few months of training, the diameter will begin to increase.  Anyone have anything more on this?

I don't buy into that all that much, yes there are some minor density changes (mitochondrial density) that occur but overall the effect of training is diameter changes that are produced via sarcoplasmic and concommitant structural hypertrophy.

If you are that interested some of the good info can be found by these researchers.

Staron, R.S.-ultrastructure and enzyme activity
Kadi, F.- satellite cell/myonuclear domain
Rennie, M.-fractional protein synthesis
McCall, G.- capillary density changes

 

[mostlyallan]

Quote[/b] (faz @ Dec. 06 2005,12:48)]dont know if anyone has ever mentioned this before but i find mentaly when i have done the 15s the 10s and 5s are much easier..so i think this allows me to use more weight..dont know if some of the other guys feel the same.

I guess your strength could have increased during the 15s so the 10s and 5s WOULD be easier.

I guess this would be a plus to doing 15s in that you could go further with weight later on in the cycle.

 

[faz]

neebone i dont know if its a strength thing ..or after doing 15 reps for 2weeks doing tens and fives feels easy

 

[faz]

and dkm i have been repping out on the 15s..today i am on my next to last workout on 15s and have already reached my 15rep max so a new max on friday...i think i will carry on repping out on the 1st week of tens as well.