HSTMunich85
New Member
How should I do HST (ideally HST Cluster) during a 16-week steroid-cycle?
Thx,
Mark
Thx,
Mark
[b said:Quote[/b] (Conciliator @ Dec. 05 2005,8:41)]...
Right now I do the following:[b said:Quote[/b] (Fausto @ Dec. 07 2005,7:12)]Mark
Show us what you doing now!
We may be able to help you, at least for the next few weeks even after you finish your cycle.
Where do you get the idea that increasing the load while on PCT is a bad idea? You say that you know a lot of people who have lost a lot of gains that way. I call BS. Increasing the load increases the tension on the muscle and preserves gains; a relative decrease in load and tension (coupled with low T levels especially) is a great recipe to lose muscle. You talk about "trying to push too much weight" making things worse for people. Too much weight for what? If you hold back during your cycle at your 7 to 8 RM, how is progressing to your 5 RM while on PCT "too much weight?" Read chapter 24 in the FAQ.[b said:Quote[/b] (xahrx @ Dec. 07 2005,10:14)]I'd agree with increasing the weights after a short oral cycle. Test E for weeks though is bound to lead to serious supression of natural T levels. During PCT after a long injectable cycle even with lowering the volume, trying to up the weights isn't always the best idea. I know a lot of people who have lost a lot of gains that way. I do know some who do it that way and can, but it seems more hit or miss to me than keeping the weight the same and even lowering it slightly if necessary. Frequent low volume workouts will help offset the catabolism of PCT, but trying to push too much weight will make things worse for a lot of people. Is the lowered volume in your opinion enough to stop your body from breaking down the gained muscle to any large extent.
It looks like you already have a lot of compound movements, which is good. Exercise selection won't need to change much, if at all. The main changes will be dropping the split (going full body), increasing the frequency (to 3x per week), and decreasing the volume (to accomodate the frequency). Note that with three workouts per week, you'll be doing about the same volume (total sets) as before. This is what I'd recommend:[b said:Quote[/b] (HSTMunich85 @ Dec. 07 2005,4:49)]No, everything else is clear! I know what that therapy is but the PCT confused me!
Thanks,
Mark
PS: What do you say to my workout plan and how should I change it, if so, during the cycle for it to be HST?
I see no reason why switching to HST would be a bad idea right now. The exercises are the same, so there's no wasted time for neural adaption. You're just shuffling the training parameters for increased frequency. I would expect better results with HST over your current routine.[b said:Quote[/b] (HSTMunich85 @ Dec. 07 2005,6:13)]Thanks, that's lots of nice infos but does it make sense to switch to HST now during my cycle? Is SD not neccesary before doing HST?
Mark
[b said:Quote[/b] (Conciliator @ Dec. 07 2005,2:16)]
[b said:Quote[/b] ]Where do you get the idea that increasing the load while on PCT is a bad idea? You say that you know a lot of people who have lost a lot of gains that way. I call BS. Increasing the load increases the tension on the muscle and preserves gains
[b said:Quote[/b] ]You talk about "trying to push too much weight" making things worse for people. Too much weight for what? If you hold back during your cycle at your 7 to 8 RM, how is progressing to your 5 RM while on PCT "too much weight?" Read chapter 24 in the FAQ.
So decrease the volume, but not the load.[b said:Quote[/b] (xahrx @ Dec. 07 2005,7:45)]Because during PCT your body's ability to recover from that application of tension is diminished.
Right, but with low testosterone levels, even the same load is not going maintain, let alone a lower load![b said:Quote[/b] (xahrx @ Dec. 07 2005,7:45)]It takes less to maintain muscle than it does to build it, and for most people during PCT after a long cycle their body is not in any state to make gains. Maintaining is the best most people can hope for during PCT.
Exactly, which is why it would be stupid to have low test levels AND drop the load. I'm not talking about increasing the load to make gains. Increasing the load is the best you can do you counteract the low test levels and maintain as much as possible. You're never going to maintain more by decreasing the load.[b said:Quote[/b] (xahrx @ Dec. 07 2005,7:45)]Munich is on 16 week test E cycle. That means a long PCT and serious supression at the end. When his last dose finally clears his system his natural T production will be through the floor and he'll be extremely catabolic and in no position to make gains unless he's a genetic freak. He'll be lucky if he hangs on to most of them.
That's too large? What does that mean? I'm talking about progressive poundages during PCT. And why would that be "bad"?[b said:Quote[/b] (xahrx @ Dec. 07 2005,7:45)] Now, as I said he "may" need to drop the weight a little. A max drop of 10% is not going to destroy your gains and is likely enough to maintain them providing diet is good. There is a balancing act during PCT. Yes, during PCT a relative decrease in load that's too large will cause a loss in gains. A relative increase that's too large would also be bad.
You're telling me that progressive poundages during PCT will destroy muscle? Where in the world does this come from?[b said:Quote[/b] (xahrx @ Dec. 07 2005,7:45)] His body will be more likely to destroy muscle than to keep it, much less build it.
Of course volume is going to be much lower when you go on PCT.[b said:Quote[/b] (xahrx @ Dec. 07 2005,7:45)]I have. I've also done my share of cycles and designed them for other people. 16 weeks of test e and trying to push up more and more weight during PCT is a bad idea unless volume is much lower than on cycle, and even then it could still lead to a loss in gains.
So your position is that lifting your 5RM will tear your muscles up when on PCT... that your body is in no position to repair them? But a drop in 10% will be fine? Whatever.[b said:Quote[/b] (xahrx @ Dec. 07 2005,7:45)]As you'll note I said 90% of your max weight per rep range is a good mark to not go below. I don't think telling someone to be prepared to drop the weight a max of 10% so they don't tear their muscles up when their body is in no position to repair them is bad advice. But that's all it is, my advice. Take it or leave it.
OK, so if I'd do it this way, what would you think?[b said:Quote[/b] (Conciliator @ Dec. 07 2005,5:26)]It looks like you already have a lot of compound movements, which is good. Exercise selection won't need to change much, if at all. The main changes will be dropping the split (going full body), increasing the frequency (to 3x per week), and decreasing the volume (to accomodate the frequency). Note that with three workouts per week, you'll be doing about the same volume (total sets) as before. This is what I'd recommend:[b said:Quote[/b] (HSTMunich85 @ Dec. 07 2005,4:49)]No, everything else is clear! I know what that therapy is but the PCT confused me!
Thanks,
Mark
PS: What do you say to my workout plan and how should I change it, if so, during the cycle for it to be HST?
Full body, 3x per week:
(start with adequate warm ups, of course)
Squat 1x6-8
Deadlift 1x6-8
Calf Raise 1x10 (I'd add these)
Bench 1x8-10
Lat pulldown 1x8-10
DB Shoulder Press 1x10
Scottcurl 1x10
Tricep Pushdowns 1x10
With the increased recovery capactity that comes with steroids I would think that you can handle more volume than this, say 2 to 4 sets per exercise. The reason I used only one set in my recommendation is because it corresponds to the weekly volume you're currently using (3 sets per week per exercise). Start with 1 set and see how you feel, but increase it according to your ability to recover so that you're getting the most out of the steroid cycle.
Also, if you have any weak points that you want to work on then add another set of that exercise. For example, if you feel your back is lagging, then do an extra set of lat pulldowns each workout.
As far as poundage progression, it's really not that important while on steroids. If you can increase the weights, however, and still stay around your 7-8 RM, then do so. When you go off cycle, you can increase the poundage from that range up to your new 5 RM. This progression will help with retention of your gains.
And of course, eat eat eat.