Hormone imbalance

Q

quadancer

New Member
My 'rejuvenation clinic' salesman gave me the pitch today that he "talked to his boss" (like I'm buying a car, right?) and he could give me a much better deal on test replacement, since we're having some trouble justifying the money for the GH I need. (my HGH is super low, and test is 637)
I think he's just feeling a commission slipping away, and wanting to sell me the test, since that would improve my outlook somewhat...even though it's GH that I need. (They could take me all the way to 1000ng/dl)
If I were to go for a therapy like this, wouldn't the major imbalance of hormones be bad somehow? I mean, I'd end up with test of a 20 yr. old and the GH of a 90. That seems scary, not in a halloween kinda way, either!
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Know anyone that makes GHB? If not, the formula is available on the net. It did boost GH before the FDA banned it then allowed it back as a narcolepsy treatment for a really big price tag. Might be cheaper than real GH though. Homemade is only a few dollars a month.

About your levels and boosting test that high with low GH. I honestly don't know. Let my talk to my friend/MD/huge bodybuilder/steroid expert... I'll get back with you by Sunday with an answer.
 
Cool. I thought we might have a roidmonster or two around that could help! I found this:



Source: DEA
GHB

Gamma-hydroxybutyric acid or GHB, is a compound that was initially used by body builders to stimulate muscle growth. In recent years it has become popular as a recreational drug among club kids and partygoers.

This "designer" drug is often used in combination with other drugs, such as Ecstasy. GHB is synthesized from a chemical used to clean electrical circuit boards, and is available in clear liquid, white powder, tablet and capsule form.
GHB is odorless and nearly tasteless. Users report that it induces a state of relaxation. The effects can be felt within 5 to 20 minutes after ingestion and the high can last up to four hours.

The Food and Drug Administration banned GHB in 1990 after 57 cases of GHB-induced illnesses (ranging from nausea and vomiting to respiratory problems, seizures and comas) were reported to poison control centers and emergency rooms. The drug was only permitted under the supervision of a physician. Since then, the drug has been implicated in several deaths and was subsequently added to the Schedule I list of drugs in the Controlled Substance Act. Anyone who possesses, manufactures or distributes GHB could face a prison term of up to 20 years.

GHB users risk many negative physical effects including vomiting, liver failure, potentially fatal respiratory problems, and tremors and seizures, which can result in comas.

GHB has reportedly been used in cases of date rape. Because GHB is odorless and tasteless, it can be slipped into someone's drink without detection.
 
I don't have any either.  However, it does boost the GH levels pretty good.  You used to be able to buy it OTC at any suppliment store.

I'm no roid monster, although I'd like to be.  I just have good access to knowledgable physicians who are willing to help out. I teach pharmacology, teach emergency medicine, practice emergency medicine, and GHB is one of the things we have to be very aware of.  However, doing my own research, I've learned that it's not as bad as it's supposed to be. Problems really only happen with large overdoses. Think about it, you are using the base chemical for cleaning solutions and some paint removers in a suppliment to boost your GH, you probably DON'T want to take too much...there will be some bad effects if you do.

I talked to the doc last night.  He said that the extra test in combination with low GH should not harm you.  

However, TRT at this point would be pointless and possibly counterproductive anyway.  Your level is high enough that you won't notice much of a difference from it.  In fact, you may end up lower than you started.  The amount required to make you a "1000" is pretty high.  If you are recieving test - it's not a boost, it's a replacement.  This is because exogenous testosterone in your system causes the body to think, "I don't need to make it".  Your endogenous production will shut down, shrinking your testicles, leaving you dependant on what is being given to you.  To take you to 1000 - this would be a lot.  Probably up to 500mg of test e each week.  TRT is for life.  Nothing to be played with.

If you can't afford medical GH therapy, consider if you are willing to take the risk of using UG GH.  It is kind of iffy, if you get fake, then you've been scammed and are out of money for nothing, if you get real, you've got to be very careful with how you handle it or you will accidentally render it inactive.

Your options are:
>Stay how you are.
>Real TRT, high dosage, for life.
>Stay how you are.
>A real cycle of test/deca, with proper PCT, HCG, nolvadex...
>Stay how you are.
>Stay how you are and give 3-6g GABA/day a try - it's legal, it does work, and isn't very expensive.  Works out to about 12.00 a month.

Good luck sorting this all out.
 
Hi quadancer, just wanted to say- don't sweat the small stuff. You can't be young forever, if your GH is low but your t-levels are relatively good, then be happy and don't worry about it. You are a big, strong guy with a foxy wife (at least I have read you say that!) and you should be happy with yourself. If hormone replacement is going to cost you a ton of money and add stress to your life, just forget it and stay natural. You are much bigger than most 25 year olds! Count your blessings.
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Well thanx, but I never, ever, ever compare myself to anyone else save for achievement goals. And I know of 65 yr. olds much bigger than I am.

My reason for getting my bloodwork tested to begin with was low libido, fatigue, fatgains, musclewasting, etc, etc. (andropause) I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired, needing thermos just to get into the gym. I miss workouts due to fatigue, rather than anxiously waiting all day to work out, like I used to.

I've found (finally) a decent study on GABA, and the final analysis was try it and see if it works for you. Kinda like creatine. http://www.denvernaturopathic.com/news/GABA.html
Skip down to the HGH section.

I'm happy to try the cheapest first!
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Oh, and Vagrant: good points. I was thinking similar to that. And thanx for checking with the doc for me. You da man!
 
<div>
(scientific muscle @ Oct. 29 2006,12:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hi quadancer, just wanted to say- don't sweat the small stuff.  You can't be young forever, if your GH is low but your t-levels are relatively good, then be happy and don't worry about it.  You are a big, strong guy with a foxy wife (at least I have read you say that!) and you should be happy with yourself.  </div>
what are you on about why in Gods name would he not want optimal health just be happy hes big and has a hot wife. Get a fast car quad and you can start to let your test levels drop.

I think you are misunderstanding the importance that this has for Quad or the imapct it can have on him physically and psychologically.
 
<div>
(vagrant @ Oct. 28 2006,00:15)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Know anyone that makes GHB?  If not, the formula is available on the net.  It did boost GH before the FDA banned it then allowed it back as a narcolepsy treatment for a really big price tag.  Might be cheaper than real GH though.  Homemade is only a few dollars a month.

About your levels and boosting test that high with low GH.  I honestly don't know.  Let my talk to my friend/MD/huge bodybuilder/steroid expert... I'll get back with you by Sunday with an answer.</div>
Vagrant do you realise how serious to make this drug is. You will be prosecuted big time especially if they put a nice case forward on synthesis with intent to supply and thus be used to rape people.
How about the quality and the yield %s i dont know the synthesis but at a guess i would say homemade is going to be erratic with high impurities.

Plus you will need your pituitary to be responding to it also.

Also is it natural replacement to be on a high for a period after taking to lose consciousness to feel sick or cant breathe in cases. that will definatly improve your well being
 
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(quadancer @ Oct. 27 2006,21:38)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">My 'rejuvenation clinic' salesman gave me the pitch today that he &quot;talked to his boss&quot; (like I'm buying a car, right?) and he could give me a much better deal on test replacement, since we're having some trouble justifying the money for the GH I need. (my HGH is super low, and test is 637)
    I think he's just feeling a commission slipping away, and wanting to sell me the test, since that would improve my outlook somewhat...even though it's GH that I need. (They could take me all the way to 1000ng/dl)
    If I were to go for a therapy like this, wouldn't the major imbalance of hormones be bad somehow? I mean, I'd end up with test of a 20 yr. old and the GH of a 90. That seems scary, not in a halloween kinda way, either!  
ghostface.gif
</div>
of course he will give a better deal its prob 100 times cheaper. Its not the same they are different hormones with different functions. Many people will look at it from a bodybuilding perspective and say take the test its better than GH in the first place but why its not whats lacking. Im sure you would feel a bit better on it from increasing test levels to those that are high even for a youth but its not whats lacking.
 
High test levels wouldn't necessarily be a good thing anyway. You'd have to take an AI to prevent massive conversion to Estrogen for one thing. Blood pressure could go up, etc etc.
 
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(Totentanz @ Nov. 01 2006,10:56)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">High test levels wouldn't necessarily be a good thing anyway.  You'd have to take an AI to prevent massive conversion to Estrogen for one thing.  Blood pressure could go up, etc etc.</div>
when we say high test we mean 1000ng/dl BP should not be a problem typically lipids improve and for most oestroen conversion is not a problem we are still talking about physioloical values but still he is not T deficient unless his free test says other wise
 
If you are looking at GHB

The aim of this study was to investigate, in normal young men, whether gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB), a reliable stimulant of slow-wave (SW) sleep in normal subjects, would simultaneously enhance sleep related growth hormone (GH) secretion. Eight healthy young men participated each in four experiments involving bedtime oral administration of placebo, 2.5, 3.0, and 3.5 g of GHB. Polygraphic sleep recordings were performed every night, and blood samples were obtained at 15-min intervals from 2000 to 0800. GHB effects were mainly observed during the first 2 h after sleep onset. There was a doubling of GH secretion, resulting from an increase of the amplitude and the duration of the first GH pulse after sleep onset. This stimulation of GH secretion was significantly correlated to a simultaneous increase in the amount of sleep stage IV. Abrupt but transient elevations of prolactin and cortisol were also observed, but did not appear to be associated with the concomitant stimulation of SW sleep. Thyrotropin and melatonin profiles were not altered by GHB administration. These data suggest that pharmacological agents that reliably stimulate SW sleep, such as GHB, may represent a novel class of powerful GH secretagogues
 
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(Maxgain @ Nov. 01 2006,10:40)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(scientific muscle @ Oct. 29 2006,12:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hi quadancer, just wanted to say- don't sweat the small stuff.  You can't be young forever, if your GH is low but your t-levels are relatively good, then be happy and don't worry about it.  You are a big, strong guy with a foxy wife (at least I have read you say that!) and you should be happy with yourself.  </div>
what are you on about why in Gods name would he not want optimal health just be happy hes big and has a hot wife. Get a fast car quad and you can start to let your test levels drop.

I think you are misunderstanding the importance that this has for Quad or the imapct it can have on him physically and psychologically.</div>
At Quad's age it is normal to have low GH levels, I don't think it is 'optimal' health to take drugs to alter your body's normal hormones, unless you have a serious disease.

(Plus- I consider him to be a friend, and just wanted to encourage him.
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)
 
Considering the feedback and expenses, I've allready begun my game plan. I am starting at the cheapest avenue, using GABA and ZMA along with the glutamine I was allready taking.
I will be watching my major issues for QoL (quality of life), which are; sleep, energy, and growth/fatloss.

If this doesn't give some results, I move on to the next best option, being the trans-D, which Maxgain had results off of. If that stuff doesn't work for me...I dunno, check out the dark side? I can't take thermogenics every day of course, so I feel I have to do something or watch myself begin to shrink and gain fat.

Just for those who don't know, I'm usually a carpenter, remodeler, etc. This is getting really hard to do, let alone come home and work out.
 
Quad,

What state do you live in? If you are close to Michigan you might be interested in this Dr. I think he is kind of expensive but my understanding is that he knows about as much as anyone about HRT.

http://www.allthingsmale.com

I hope the GABA works for you. I think that would be better than GHRT in the long run if it helps.
 
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(Bulldog @ Nov. 01 2006,21:38)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Quad,

What state do you live in?  If you are close to Michigan you might be interested in this Dr.  I think he is kind of expensive but my understanding is that he knows about as much as anyone about HRT.

http://www.allthingsmale.com

I hope the GABA works for you.  I think that would be better than GHRT in the long run if it helps.</div>
Ah yes Dr Chrysler. His protocols are excellent especially the knowledge to add in hcg with all test replacements unlike many others. Hes good but unfortunatly that does not change the price of HGH
 
<div>
(scientific muscle @ Nov. 01 2006,11:08)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Maxgain @ Nov. 01 2006,10:40)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(scientific muscle @ Oct. 29 2006,12:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hi quadancer, just wanted to say- don't sweat the small stuff.  You can't be young forever, if your GH is low but your t-levels are relatively good, then be happy and don't worry about it.  You are a big, strong guy with a foxy wife (at least I have read you say that!) and you should be happy with yourself.  </div>
what are you on about why in Gods name would he not want optimal health just be happy hes big and has a hot wife. Get a fast car quad and you can start to let your test levels drop.

I think you are misunderstanding the importance that this has for Quad or the imapct it can have on him physically and psychologically.</div>
At Quad's age it is normal to have low GH levels, I don't think it is 'optimal' health to take drugs to alter your body's normal hormones, unless you have a serious disease.

(Plus- I consider him to be a friend, and just wanted to encourage him.
cool.gif
)</div>
&quot;Normal&quot; is a very vague word which it has to be to account for how we are all unique. 98% of physicians/general practitioners would agree with you, about 80% of endrocrinologists and only about 5% of hrt doctors. i just happen to be in the hrt camp which is actually the minority but i have seen the huge improvement that Rt can have the stress not having it can have and believe no one should except old age as an excuse to allow health to decline. Quad has made many posts on my short time on the boards and just the stress of trying to work it out will impact his health badly.
 
&quot;Quad has made many posts on my short time on the boards and just the stress of trying to work it out will impact his health badly.&quot;

I don't know exactly what you meant by that, heheh, but maybe I'm tired from posting too much!  
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My tests from Palm Beach Rejuv clinic came in, and I can't find GH ANYWHERE on it! I'm pissed. How did that salesman get low GH from it when it's not ON it? I searched all the abbreviations and it's not there.

Anyway, they may be assuming GH from IGF-1 levels, but they aren't really very low! (113 on a scale of 87-238). My FSH (follicle stimulating hormones) was 7.6 on a 1.0-9.0 scale.
My test was 637 total on a 750 scale, with 14.3 free on a 5-25 scale. Estradiol 45 on a 0-56. (maybe I just need to take an estrogen blocker?)

I copied this from a survey report:
Test will:
Increase sex drive
• Improve strength
• Increase energy
• Promote more consistent, firmer erections
• Increase muscle mass
• Repair damaged tissue from injury
• Reduce fat mass
• Lower cholesterol
• Increase bone density
• Improve stamina
• Restore muscle tone
• Improve joint mobility
HGH does above and also:
•  Reduce stress &amp; enhance immune system
• Accelerate healing
• Improve memory &amp; cognitive function
• Speed recovery from exercise
• • Achieve younger, tighter, thicker skin
• Improve kidney and liver function
•  Improve sleep
• Lower blood pressure
So yes, GH does a lot more and different things in you. Too bad I'm not female. Low hormones there and I'd have an affordable script in minutes!  
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Sorry it s just you have made a few posts on it in the short time I have been here where I only get asked about it once in a blue moon noramlly just gave me the impression its very important to you?

Gh is measured by igf-1 levels. Most gh -with a fairly styrong constant correlation- is converted to igf1 in the liver. The Gh test directly is expensive and unreliable due to levels varying so much through the day and the extremely short half life. Igf1 has a longer halflife and is a more constant measurement.

You dont have much of a case for an oestrogen blocker the same way as you dont have much of a case for trt. For some increasing test levels will actually result in a reduction in oestrogen.


your labs are strange must be the way they test them. Here test levels are up to 1200 and igf 400 with 700 not unheard of
 
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