Fastest way to gain for beginner is ?

Louno

New Member
Hi,

im going to start lifting,
my goal is to gain mass, as fast as possible.(with as little fat as possible)
Im 22, 5'9 , weight about 140-145.
Im pretty skinny ( but i do have a little belly )


Is HST going to help me ?
I mean since im a noob, i might as well go lift weight 5 days a week instead of 3, and just lift , lift , lift, take whey , take creatine.

I want to see results in 1 month, is this possible ? or 2months since hst cycle are 2 months.

What tactic should i use to get to my goal as fast as possible.
In ure opinion ( based on what u heard/saw/experienced ) how much could i gain ?

thanks :)
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Louno @ Mar. 26 2004,4:22)]Hi,
im going to start lifting,
my goal is to gain mass, as fast as possible.(with as little fat as possible)
Im 22, 5'9 , weight about 140-145.
Im pretty skinny ( but i do have a little belly )
Is HST going to help me ?
I mean since im a noob, i might as well go lift weight 5 days a week instead of 3, and just lift , lift , lift, take whey , take creatine.
I want to see results in 1 month, is this possible ? or 2months since hst cycle are 2 months.
What tactic should i use to get to my goal as fast as possible.
In ure opinion ( based on what u heard/saw/experienced ) how much could i gain ?
thanks :)
First of all, I don't think training 5 days a week hardcore will yeild better results, I actually think you might end up overtraining. Too much training can be counterproductive depending on the circumstances. Since you are new to lifting weights your body might take several weeks to get in the groove of things, but HST last 2 months which I think is a lot of time to gain some muscle. A lot of people on this forum have done great with HST and all the great advice and info you get helps a ton. I believe HST can be good for newbies and for people that have a lot of training experience, which is perfect. Another thing is that I wouldn't get completely stuck on the whole supplement thing either. Supplements can aid weight training regimines but I think a good nutrional program and wieight training routine like HST should definetly be a main focus to see results. If your nutrition is not really aimed towards your goals than you might not be progressing as you might have hoped. I suggest reading articles in the FAQ, or go in the articles section where you will find an article called eating for mass which could help you with nutrition and others, or just ask more questions. Good luck with program!
 
Ok so, what ure saying is , do hst , and have a good diet...
skip the supplement ?
Even creatine ?
I think the hardest thing to do is eat well, counting calories and stuff is pretty annoying to me hehe , but im getting in the habit of doing it, i eat less junk food, skip desert and eat a fruit instead , u know simple stuff like that, drink juices / milk instead of pepsi , u know...
At work its hard to eat well, anyways...
So i was thinking on eating pretty normally, and adding creatine and whey to make sure i had enough protein to grow...
Also , even if HST is on a 2month cycle basis , will i see result after 1 month or , like is there a way to do a mini hst , from what i understand most of the gains are made during the last weeks of Hst ...

One other thing, if for example id want to focus a little bit more on my forearms, can i do 1 or 2 extra exercise for them?
does adding more exercise to a specific muscle u want to target make it grow more or its only going to get it fatigued , like too much exercised... ?

thanks for your advices
 
Newbies do not need creatine. You will get great gains without them. Why not wait till you reach a plateau before using creatine? You do not need to do extra work for forearms. Any free weight exercise (other than squats really) will work your forerams.
And you will, more than likely, see very little results in the first month as the first 6 weeks or so most of the gains are nueral, in which case why even do hst as a newbie? But yet everyone on here seems to recommend it for a newbie. It makes no sense for an absolute bewb to do this. I think that you should do reps anywhere from 10-15 reps 9work on technique, muscle control etc) and you will still get the strength gains. Then you can drop the reps down to 8-12 and then after that cycle why not do hst?
 
You're lucky - finding HST as a noob, as it allows you to learn both the neural and physical aspects of both training and it's exercises. Forget about aiming for "X" girth guns, concentrate on learning the protocol and applying it along with the nutritional guidelines (once you know roughly what 50grams of carbs/fat/protein looks like - you "know" when a meal is either balanced or not)
Decide NOW - do you want to lift heavy (with all the attendent joint aches & pains etc) or are you going to take the opportunity to learn a great system that will allow you to grow at an optimum rate using sane weights?
If I had my chance over, you can guess which "path" I'd follow
 
Well thats cool but see, the thing is jsut right here bourbonboy just suggested me not to do hst and only start it in like 6weeks or so.

Some ppl say do , some ppl say dont... some ppl say use creatine some ppl say dont...
So im really confused hehe... cuz i dont know much about this stuff, and even in these forums (im on another forum too ) ppl dont really agree...

The one thing that does botter me about starting with HST is that im gonna workout 3 days to find my max, then i have to stop for 2weeks ( SD) then start over again...
I guess there wouldnt be any hesitation if there wasnt any SD for ppl who do their FIRST hst cycle ( and were not training before ) , i think my muscle are ultra deconditionned already hehehe. I understand the SD between cycles, but , i dont understand the SD after 3 days of training... maybe its because i use max weights ? but then, isnt my strenght supposed to go up anyways since im a begginner...?

Also just to clarify , im looking for best way to gay mass, not strenght even if it comes with it, so isnt creatine good for this?

:) thanks for your help guys
 
Dear Louno,

I can perhaps, understand your conundrum. On one hand, you are eager to start. On the other, you are having doubts as to whether HST is the best for you. This is understandable due to the vast amount of information out there, of which much is conflicting. But I ask you to sieve through all available information and make an informed choice.

In your posts it is implied you wish to gain quickly. Indeed, one must make haste, but slowly, especially if unassisted by injectable supplements.

Allow me then to reply in specific your most recent post:

"Some ppl say do , some ppl say dont... some ppl say use creatine some ppl say dont... So im really confused hehe... cuz i dont know much about this stuff, and even in these forums (im on another forum too ) ppl dont really agree..."

>>>> Have you any existing kidney/liver condition that *might* be contraindicative to creatine use? Any family history of liver/kidney disease? If your answer is "no" to both such questions, I'd say go ahead and take the creatine.

How much to take and when to take? The HST FAQ has ample information on this but I'd simply take 5g a day (a flat teaspoon) before working out on workout days, and 5g a day with any meal on non-workout days.

Do you need the whey protein? Then again, do you really need any form of protein supplement if your normal diet is adequate? By and large, no. Not unless you understood the rationale for a fast and slow protein which gave rise to the creation of Primer and Driver. Simply put, a fast protein will quickly flood your bloodstream with amino acids and if this is done just prior to working out, you get more aminos to your working muscles which is anabolically, a good thing. The slow protein taken after the workout feeds your muscle with a slower but steady stream of aminos which also is a good thing. Think of the fast protein as the airstrike while the slow protein as the troops marching in after the airstrike. Victory is at hand....

Look, the people probably don't agree because they don't have an understanding as to how and why creatine is used. Read the HST FAQ - a treasure trove of information there really.

"The one thing that does botter me about starting with HST is that im gonna workout 3 days to find my max, then i have to stop for 2weeks ( SD) then start over again..."

>>>> Workout for three days.... hmm... I don't remember this being the protocol for establishing one's RMs but then again, I might have done it wrong myself when I established my RMs all in one workout. Still, I had an idea, from previous non-HST workouts as to what my RMs would be. In any circumstance, the SD is recommended after establishing one's RMs to allow the muscles to resensitize from having established the RMs. Won't be too wise jump into the program without first being as sensitized as possible would it? I can understand your desire for more muscle, but growth takes time, and to do HST right you have to adhere to its guidelines, or else, it won't be HST would it?

Should you do HST or something else? HST is by far, the most efficient means of stimulating growth. Nothing else comes close. Now, it makes no sense to do anything else, and it makes even less sense to do something else, hit a plateau, then come back to HST. Just start your bodybuilding on the right foot on the right path, and you will be on the highway to muscledom.

"i dont understand the SD after 3 days of training... maybe its because i use max weights ? but then, isnt my strenght supposed to go up anyways since im a begginner...?"

>>>> Yes, the finding of max weights is perhaps, a bit of a whipping to your muscles and you must thus give them some SD to resensitize them. As for strength going up since you're a beginner, this is somewhat of a complex answer but in short, a beginner is sensitive to any form of stimulus. It won't take much for a beginner to grow muscle and gain strength, until the muscles become desensitized. In a traditional sense, this is often referred to as "beginner's gains" but we know such terms are nonsense. It's not about luck, it's about muscle sensitivity to training stimuli. Once such resistance to stimuli occurs, we employ SD to resensitized the muscles again, and thus with SD, we can always be sensitive i.e. a beginner, to lifting weights. The only difference between a "beginner" and a "seasoned" lifter is the degree of conditioning of their muscles, if muscle sensitivity to growth stimuli is the defining factor for such categorization.

"Also just to clarify , im looking for best way to gay mass, not strenght even if it comes with it, so isnt creatine good for this?"

>>>> Creatine is just lovely. Do a search on PubMed and see. It's not just a supplement for muscle growth and strength. There are applications for cognitive function, cardiac function etc. I feel it should be taken as a general tonic, to be honest. And what better time to do so now that HS:Cre Micronized Creatine is on sale. Look at the top of this screen and see :D

C`mon, do it right and do it right the first time. Find your RMs, have a decent SD then start growing the HST way.

Godspeed, and happy HSTing :)
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dianabol @ April 12 2004,9:36)]Think of the fast protein as the airstrike while the slow protein as the troops marching in after the airstrike. Victory is at hand....
Christ, do you partake or engage in any mind altering/enhancing substances or techniques before writing your posts?

i love reading your stuff :)
 
Many experts recommend something like an anatomical adaptation phase to strengthen up the bodies musculature support system. This will lessen injuries. The faster you put on muscle when you first lift, the higher the probability of tendon damage as muscle can grow at a rate faster than the tendons can adapt to. This is true when beginning and with steriods. I still suggest usuing higher reps to start with. But I can see that suggesting anything other than hst on this site for anything is pretty much a waste of time.
 
hey , thanks for your replies,

I started working out for a little more than 1 week.

I decided that i was going to workout for 1 month at least without HST, just to get stronger.

So what i do is for each exercise i do 2 set with 8 - 10 rep , each muscle is worked 2 time per workout , so i do 2 exercise for bicep , 2 for shoudlers, 2 for back, 2 for legs, 2 for tricep , 2 for abs, and 2 for pec .

So far ive done 5 workouts, and i was Super sore the first workout but since then ive become less sore after each workout. My strenght didnt go up yet tho ?

I make a BIG effort to eat more and better food than i did before, I drink lots of water each day ( which i never did ) , i take whey protein ( 22g-35g per day) and creatine, with 1 multi vitamine each day.

I took pictures of myself after the first workout and will continu taking them after each 3 workout block ( 1 week ).

So far i dont see any change in my body tho, i was hoping to see maybe a little strenght gain or something after 1 week... im not giving up tho i guess its normal ?

maybe im not eating egnough/right ?
I used to eat pretty bad stuff, always junk food, i also almost always skipped breakfast... Now i take time to eat at least 1 toast with peanut butter or cream cheese with one glass of milk every morning ... on lunch instead of going to mcdonals i go eat some smoked meats or subway roasted chicken sub or stuff like that, and i try to eat some good stuff for dinner. I also try to eat 1 or 2 fruit at least each day , which i never did before too... I dont drink soda anymore , i drink mostly water, juice or iced tea...

I hope ill start to see some kind of improvement ,soon , im putting alot of effort/sacrifice into this but maybe its not enough or not done right ? in anycase it might be too soon to judge.

any thoughts?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Louno @ April 16 2004,3:38)]*I started working out for a little more than 1 week.
I decided that i was going to workout for 1 month at least without HST, just to get stronger.

*So what i do is for each exercise i do 2 set with 8 - 10 rep , each muscle is worked 2 time per workout , so i do 2 exercise for bicep , 2 for shoudlers, 2 for back, 2 for legs, 2 for tricep , 2 for abs, and 2 for pec .

*So far ive done 5 workouts, and i was Super sore the first workout but since then ive become less sore after each workout. My strenght didnt go up yet tho ?
So far i dont see any change in my body tho, i was hoping to see maybe a little strenght gain or something after 1 week... im not giving up tho i guess its normal ?
*Well, your only one week into the program, try to be a little more patient with the results. Your growth and weight gain should come throughout the cycle, and not from one weeks time. Also HST is more so focused on muscle growth rather than large strength gains.

*Are you using the same rep scheme(8-10 reps) the entire cycle or did you shorten, etc? If your in the first week of the program you should be in the 15's, unless you skipped them all together and went to the 10's (which I don't really think is the best idea).

*I stated above that HST's main focus is growth,but I do gain strength from cycle to cycle, sometimes an increase of (varies) 5-10#'s upper body and 10-15#'s for lower body to my previous rep maxes depending on the muscle group. I gain a little more strength during the 5's than the higher rep ranges, so give it a little time.
 
hey viper, i think u didnt read my post well, or maybe i wasnt clear :)
either way, like i said ,
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
I decided that i was going to workout for 1 month at least without HST, just to get stronger.
So for the first month im not doing any cycle , im just doing the same routine 3-4 time a week. Hopefully to gain mass en strenght, then after that 1 month of training im going to start HST , i cant wait to start :)
I think its better for me to just do some general workout before hst because im really weak and my increase in HST would be hard/ackward to do ...
Like right now i can only lift 2x27.5 lbs + bar about 10 time on bench press ... id need at least 2x30 so i can make increasement of 5 ( 5, 10 , 15 , 20 , 25, 30 ) but not only that , but it would be kinda weird doing bench with like only 2x5 lbs ...
I can only do 8 hammers bicep curl with 20lbs too, see what i mean ?
sorry for the confusion , maybe im not writing well in english, im a french canadian eh !
 
louno - excellent job on changing around your diet - if you've managed to stick with the diet alone for a whole week consistently, you've already accomplished a lot, and it shows you're serious - I would vouch for the fact that you will experience good results in the near future, if you maintain this discipline.

First, I should mention I started off similar to you - at 120 pounds bodyweight (5'10), and I started lifting at age 25. I'm now 26 and last summer weighed close to 170 pounds without any supplements or drugs. Diet is incredibly important - specifically calories. It is very easy to underestimate how much you need to grow.

I'd advise finding some way to ensure that you're intaking between 2500-3500 calories each and every day. That's a lot of food, and it will seem unnatural (indeed it may be said to be unnatural by some standards), but you will habituate to it sooner than you expect. Exactly how many calories you need is something personal to your body, and you will have to learn yourself through experimentation - i got it right the first time luckily, and it enabled me to pack on extremely efficiently. I've seen what happens to my body when i don't maintain the diet, and it really is a sensitive machine when it comes to growing, since growing isn't an equilibrium state with inbuilt feedback mechanisms to keep it in a steady state of growth. Thus you need to create radical conditions within your body, and part of this is the high calorie content.

As for training, you will receive different advice from different people, as to whether to start with HST or something different. I don't have a definitive answer, and don't consider myself able to answer that question with much confidence, but here are some things to consider.

1) So long as you don't overtrain or undereat, you will grow as long as you're lifting sufficient weight. I grew to 165 pounds using a very low frequency/volume HIT approach - i went ot the gym twice a week, and did 4 exercises each workout, with 1 or 2 sets each. (I did back, biceps, and deadlifts on monday, and chest, triceps, and squats on friday). Now i'm not saying my way was ideal, or couldn't be rearranged or improved upon, but it worked wonders. It's likely (but i'm not convinced) that if i had employed HST, i would have grown equally if not more.

What you can learn from my example is that you have a fair amount of growth time where you need not experience too much anxiety over the training philosophy you develop (each person develops her own philosophy); make the most out of what you do do though - master the movements, use strict form, learn the discipline of not missing a single meal or gym day.

Warm up effectively - get the blood flowing first somehow (light cycling for 5 min is what i did), and do a couple warmup sets before each major movement.

There is also one other thing - if this doesn't work, and you're employing a 3 day a week frequency, one thing that might help, although most on this board will disagree, is to reduce your frequency. However, I suspect that this advice is not sound, but i feel compelled to present it because i'm not convinced that it's bad advice.

(see this thread for more details: http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/cgi-bin....;t=2570 )
 
Yep, my fault, didn't read the post right the first time. You seem to be making an incredible effort so far with the training, etc and all this should pay off with time. Good luck man!
 
Back
Top