It's a shame this stuff is being banned, as it was one of my favorites. Since I won't be able to get ephedrine in the near future (or will I?), what would you consider the next best thing (besides diet and exercise, of course)? I'm looking at Yohimbine HCl, as 1Fast400 sells a gram for $5. Any suggestions? Thanks for your help.
Ephedrine is out
- Thread starter ajntorinj
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G
Guest
Guest
different things in combination? yohimbine, forskolin, caffeine...?
or clenbuterol but I guess its illegal in the us
or clenbuterol but I guess its illegal in the us
D
Dianabol
Guest
You could try yohimbe extract - yohimbine HCL or something like that. This has yet to be banned, but apparently, it's a specific A2 agonist and works better for lower-body fat-loss. Haven't tried this myself but hey, it sounds like fun 
You could try getting the good E or its cousin PPA from a pharmacist friend? If you get a prescription for it then it should be fine? Hook up with an open-minded doctor. He/She will probably supervise your regime of injectable supplements too when the need arises
But seriously, I'd call the many supplement companies you can find at the back of each muscle mag. They'd have stockpiles of the stuff and I am sure something can be negotiated. Hey, if steroids can be bought underground, why can't the innocent E?
Godspeed, and happy HSTing
You could try getting the good E or its cousin PPA from a pharmacist friend? If you get a prescription for it then it should be fine? Hook up with an open-minded doctor. He/She will probably supervise your regime of injectable supplements too when the need arises
But seriously, I'd call the many supplement companies you can find at the back of each muscle mag. They'd have stockpiles of the stuff and I am sure something can be negotiated. Hey, if steroids can be bought underground, why can't the innocent E?
Godspeed, and happy HSTing
That's one of the things that attracts me to YHCl, the fact that it works best on the lower body. I never tried it before, mainly because I was afraid of mixing the E with the Y together. It never occured to me about seeing a doctor, though. Maybe my medical insurance will help pay for those kinds of prescriptions... You really got my gears turning now, Dianabol.
D
Dianabol
Guest
To add to that, yohimbe is traditionally used as an aphrodisiac. Apparently, it raises the flag to a good full mast by via non-hormonal means
But I've read before about mixing yohimbine HCL (Y) with C.
There had been some stacks called NYC - Norephedrine (PPA - Phenylpropanolamine - what a mouthful...), Yohimbine HCL (Y) and Caffeine ©. The problem with the NYC is it hasn't been studied the way EC has even though in theory, it should work. The question is safety really.
Notwithstanding that fact, I suggest you take Y on its own at a low dose. I'm really not sure how much and how often to take Y, and combining it with C again, I am not sure in what ratio.
Have a look at www.netrition.com - last time I was there they stocked NYC sort of stacks in and sold Y on its own too (Twinlabs brand I think...) in the Fatburners section. The formulations on the NYC stacks should give you an indication of how much and what ratio to take. Alternatively, do a search on PubMed "yohimbine hcl toxicity" or something along those lines to find the maximum safe dosage and perhaps, the minimum therapeutic dosage.
Hope your easter egg hunt turns out fruitful. Trying hard enough and tipping generously can work wonders
Godspeed, and happy HSTing
But I've read before about mixing yohimbine HCL (Y) with C.
There had been some stacks called NYC - Norephedrine (PPA - Phenylpropanolamine - what a mouthful...), Yohimbine HCL (Y) and Caffeine ©. The problem with the NYC is it hasn't been studied the way EC has even though in theory, it should work. The question is safety really.
Notwithstanding that fact, I suggest you take Y on its own at a low dose. I'm really not sure how much and how often to take Y, and combining it with C again, I am not sure in what ratio.
Have a look at www.netrition.com - last time I was there they stocked NYC sort of stacks in and sold Y on its own too (Twinlabs brand I think...) in the Fatburners section. The formulations on the NYC stacks should give you an indication of how much and what ratio to take. Alternatively, do a search on PubMed "yohimbine hcl toxicity" or something along those lines to find the maximum safe dosage and perhaps, the minimum therapeutic dosage.
Hope your easter egg hunt turns out fruitful. Trying hard enough and tipping generously can work wonders
Godspeed, and happy HSTing
Chupacabra
New Member
Ephedra is being banned. Not ephedrine.
D
Dianabol
Guest
Another thing I've been contemplating is the cycling of EC.
There is no need to cycle EC since its thermogenic effects appear to rocket on and up with chronic use. There is no need to "rest" the adrenals.
But EC's anorectic effects wear off by four weeks of use. Interestingly, taking a break from it actually resensitizes the individual to its anorectic effects. This is from personal experience. Anyone have a similar experience to this? I don't believe there is a study done on this though.
Would be fun to cycle EC not on lame reasons of "resting the adrenals" but more to reap continually its anorectic effect. The question is - how long to go off it? A week? Two weeks? That way, once the anorectic effects wear off, one could switch over to YC for example, to give the fat in the lower body a wake up call at the same time refreshing oneself to the anorectic effects of E. Two weeks later, switch back to EC?
Perhaps, use EC for four weeks, then two weeks of YC, then back to EC for four weeks again? This way, my appetite would be blunted for much more than just four initial weeks - it would be blunted for so much of the entire duration.
EC afterall, has been criticized to not being able to target fat stores in the lower body and alternating E with Y might be one way of having the best of both worlds.
On a personal basis, I think two weeks is good for me to get resensitized to E's anorectic effects. A pity I have no access to Y if not this would be quite a fun thing to do.
Oh well. My dinner of baked rice and crackled pork beckons
Godspeed, and happy HSTing
There is no need to cycle EC since its thermogenic effects appear to rocket on and up with chronic use. There is no need to "rest" the adrenals.
But EC's anorectic effects wear off by four weeks of use. Interestingly, taking a break from it actually resensitizes the individual to its anorectic effects. This is from personal experience. Anyone have a similar experience to this? I don't believe there is a study done on this though.
Would be fun to cycle EC not on lame reasons of "resting the adrenals" but more to reap continually its anorectic effect. The question is - how long to go off it? A week? Two weeks? That way, once the anorectic effects wear off, one could switch over to YC for example, to give the fat in the lower body a wake up call at the same time refreshing oneself to the anorectic effects of E. Two weeks later, switch back to EC?
Perhaps, use EC for four weeks, then two weeks of YC, then back to EC for four weeks again? This way, my appetite would be blunted for much more than just four initial weeks - it would be blunted for so much of the entire duration.
EC afterall, has been criticized to not being able to target fat stores in the lower body and alternating E with Y might be one way of having the best of both worlds.
On a personal basis, I think two weeks is good for me to get resensitized to E's anorectic effects. A pity I have no access to Y if not this would be quite a fun thing to do.
Oh well. My dinner of baked rice and crackled pork beckons
Godspeed, and happy HSTing
Thanks again for your suggestions, Dianabol.
I've been on E for months at a time, and I don't the the anorectic effects ever really wore off for me.
Chupacabra is correct, but if there were an ephedrine loophole, that would be great. Sadly, I don't think we're going to dodge this one that easily.
I've been on E for months at a time, and I don't the the anorectic effects ever really wore off for me.
Chupacabra is correct, but if there were an ephedrine loophole, that would be great. Sadly, I don't think we're going to dodge this one that easily.
Chupacabra
New Member
There's no loophole needed. Ephedrine HCL/sulfate ain't going anywhere. It's an effective, cheap bronchiodilator, the pharmaceutical industry has too much money invested in products like Bronkaid, Primatene and the other various sinus meds to change their formulations without a fight, and Advil Sinus just isn't a sexy target like Xenadrine is.
IMO we're far, far more likely to see a PH ban than an E HCL ban.
IMO we're far, far more likely to see a PH ban than an E HCL ban.
Yohimbine is an a2 ANTagonist, not agonist (you wouldn't want that anyway). By blocking the a2 inhibitory receptors on fat cells, it can potentiate (but not cause) lipolysis. That is why many fat burning supplements contain combinations of E with Y. It does this minimizing its effects on the a2 receptors, thus potentiating its effects at the b2 receptors. In a nutshell, Y helps E work by allowing fat to be utilized from those difficult deposits (waist on men, hips on women). To my knowledge, though, it doesn't have any (or very little) thermogenic properties like E.
Y also has some pretty nasty side effects like increasing blood pressure, tremors, and some not so pleasant CNS effects. In fact, it has been used in the laboratory to potentiate panic attacks. These side effects are primarily the reason why so many transdermal Y preparations have been made. Personally, I tried it orally once and it scared the heck out of me. I tried the transdermal stuff (Avant labs) while taking EC and it seemed to work somewhat (not spectacularly though).
Specific beta 2 agonist work the best, since they greatly limit side effects, and miss a2 receptors entirely. Examples of those would be clenbuterol or albuterol. As stated above, those aren't illegal, but are by available by prescription only. Thus, they aren't impossible to get.
Y also has some pretty nasty side effects like increasing blood pressure, tremors, and some not so pleasant CNS effects. In fact, it has been used in the laboratory to potentiate panic attacks. These side effects are primarily the reason why so many transdermal Y preparations have been made. Personally, I tried it orally once and it scared the heck out of me. I tried the transdermal stuff (Avant labs) while taking EC and it seemed to work somewhat (not spectacularly though).
Specific beta 2 agonist work the best, since they greatly limit side effects, and miss a2 receptors entirely. Examples of those would be clenbuterol or albuterol. As stated above, those aren't illegal, but are by available by prescription only. Thus, they aren't impossible to get.
thedrivethruguy
New Member
this topic made me go check my bottle of ripped fuel w/Ephedrine and I realized i'm running low. So I did a simple search "Ephedrine for sale" and bam a bunch of sites were willing to sell it. Chupacabra was correct indeed, no loophole needed. I just now ordered it from nutritiondeals.com with no problems whatsoever...
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Guest
Guest
how longs a ephe cycle-length? and how long the break between? 10 weeks / 4 weeks?
Chupacabra
New Member
There's no need to cycle ephedrine.[b said:
thedrivethruguy
New Member
unless you want the anorectic effects, as dianabol already pointed out, correct?
G
Guest
Guest
argh..sorry...missed that one...
another question: are there real benefits from taking things like forskolin, synephrine, bioperine, gugglusterones?
(any studies around?)
another question: are there real benefits from taking things like forskolin, synephrine, bioperine, gugglusterones?
(any studies around?)I emailed the guys at 1Fast400 if they would continue to sell EHCl after the ephedra ban. They said they would sell it as long as possible, and that is wasn't affected by the ban. I should've taken you fellows' word on it, but I'm glad to have confirmation from the people who'll sell me the stuff.
Insane_Man
New Member
I've heard that synephrine acts using the same mechanism but is slightly less effective and "safer". No articles or anything to back that up at the moment.[b said:Quote[/b] (Wolge @ Jan. 27 2004,2:33)]argh..sorry...missed that one...
another question: are there real benefits from taking things like forskolin, synephrine, bioperine, gugglusterones?
It thought synephrine was more of an alpha agonist, and only hit the beta receptors mildly if at all. You wouldn't want that, since the alpha adrenergic receptors cause most of the unwanted side effects, and the beta (esp. beta-3) receptors are responsible for fat burning.
Also, synephrine in a lot of herbal preps comes from citrus aurantium, or Bitter Orange. There are lots of papers out there that show citrus aurantium to inhibit a drug metabolizing enzyme in the small intestine (CYP 3A4) which can lead to greatly, even dangerously, increased blood levels of certain drugs. So using synephrine just doesn't sound like a very good idea.
It's too bad there aren't any OTC specific beta-3 agonists.
Also, synephrine in a lot of herbal preps comes from citrus aurantium, or Bitter Orange. There are lots of papers out there that show citrus aurantium to inhibit a drug metabolizing enzyme in the small intestine (CYP 3A4) which can lead to greatly, even dangerously, increased blood levels of certain drugs. So using synephrine just doesn't sound like a very good idea.
It's too bad there aren't any OTC specific beta-3 agonists.