Dropping Arms!? Target Weight?

C

Crackerman

New Member
I'm 6'4 approx 90kg of very lean build.

Although my arms are reasonably muscular they are by means big. I cant even bust 16" flexed. It has been that way for some time now despite whatever bicep/tricep exercise combination I throw at them. I believe I've been eating enough because I put on 4kg last cycle although I swear most of that went to my gut.

I have been reading and hearing a bit lately that in order for them to grow I need to lift heavy weights concentrating on the larger muscle groups ie bench, dips, pull ups, bent rows, shrugs etc. The theory is that most bicep/tricep movements are shaping exercises rather than mass builders.

Is this true? Can I build arm size without doing any specific arm exercises?

My second question revolves around bulking weight. If I were aiming to be a lean muscular 95kg, realistically what weight should I bulk up to before cutting?

Cheers
 
Yes. Yes.

Why go beyond your target weight? Why not just build up to it with a reasonable diet that doesn't put a lot of excess fat on you that you have to then diet off?
 
Ah, O&G, trying to convert people to your way of bulking?
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I concur, that you can easily add arm mass by focusing on increasing your heavy compound lifts: standing military presses, bench pressing, bentover rows (90 degree angle), pullups - increase the weight you move in these lifts and your arms will surely grow.

The only thing that I've heard is that, even when people get to pressing 365-405 for reps on the bench (this is an example from a friend of mine who was in this situation), they still have arms that look small and flat, despite the added mass. What could be the cause of this? The general idea has been that adding mass with heavy compounds is the way to go, but he certainly doesn't look as big as you'd think he would, even though he does no isolation work.
 
I agree with the compounds somewhat. What I would suggest is maybe do a small SD. And then Hit the compounds heavy for a cycle. Say skip the 15 and just do tens and five reps.

That should do it. Also though I do think some isolation work does wonders for the arms. What I would suggest is do a cycle of compounds then SD and then depending upon how well your gains were...do another cycle but just concentrate on mass builders for your arms. For example heavy overhead dumbell extentions...or heavy french curls for triceps and barbell curls for bicep...again sticking to HST principals...but maybe going a little heavier than you normally would.

Good luck!

Oh. P.S. what I mean by heavy is sometimes we can fool ourselves and we are stronger than we really think...so tap your tank for bicep growth! :D
 
Most people need at least 4 reps to stimulate hypertrophy. If someone consistently does 3 reps or less, chances are they will pick up a lot of neural strength but not a lot of hypertrophy. That is why you see a lot of olympic style lifters that do not have huge arms.

I also think isolations have their place in arm training. I typically do all compound movements but add in one set of one isolation movement each for biceps, triceps and traps.

And, yes, I am always trying to convert people to "my" way of bulking. Why YoYo when steady and slow seems better and healthier?
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O&G I agree with the YO YO dieting been there done that...it doesn't seem to really help that much with muscle gains. If you are very lean...I guess a maximum bulking poundage of 10 pounds would be the most I would recommend in the off season.

:confused:
 
You are 100% kerrect in my book Joe. 10 pounds is the maximum that I think anyone should go above their "contest" weight.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Joe.Muscle @ July 07 2005,10:26)]
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[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Why go beyond your target weight? Why not just build up to it with a reasonable diet that doesn't put a lot of excess fat on you that you have to then diet off?
Click to expand...

It's the whole diet thing! I would find it easier just to eat in an excess calorie range and work from there.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I agree with the compounds somewhat. What I would suggest is maybe do a small SD. And then Hit the compounds heavy for a cycle. Say skip the 15 and just do tens and five reps.
That should do it. Also though I do think some isolation work does wonders for the arms. What I would suggest is do a cycle of compounds then SD and then depending upon how well your gains were...do another cycle but just concentrate on mass builders for your arms. For example heavy overhead dumbell extentions...or heavy french curls for triceps and barbell curls for bicep...again sticking to HST principals...but maybe going a little heavier than you normally would.
Click to expand...

I was already considering dropping the 15's and doing a condensed bulking cycle or two.

What do you mean by doing another cycle just concentrating on arms? Are you suggesting I drop all other exercises or just reduce the volume of them.

How does this look for a bulking routine?

Incline Dumbell Press
Dips
Squats/Deadlifts (Alternating)
Pull Ups
Bent Rows
Shoulder Press (Smith Machine)
Dumbell Shrugs

Anything missing? Another leg or shoulder exercise maybe, or do you think this will suffice.

Thanks Heaps,
Simon
 
I agree that triples (often used by olylifters) don't induce much growth - as much as slightly higher rep ranges would, but I do know that the strength gained with lower reps will have some carryover, and that will allow one to use greater weights in the slightly higher rep ranges (5 reps always works wonders for me when it comes to size), which means you can load the muscle more.
 
Hello!
Just wanted a clarification: Am I reading this thread correctly - that arms don't really get bigger with the isolation exercises (dumbbell curls) but with the compound exercises like benchpresses?
If that's the case, that means even heavy dumbbell curls are, at best, just "helpers" for the compound exercises to make arms grow bigger. That probably means I can go easy on dumbbell curls and triceps pressdown and concentrate more on bench presses. Is that correct?
But why did The Boss Bryan Haycock recommend putting arm exercises (like dumbbell curls) at the very start of the routine  to someone in the past who wanted to know what to do because his arms were lagging behind?
That's about it. I'm usually silent and don't ask questions (i just read a ton), but I decided to make an exception with this one as it is really interesting for me.
Thanks.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (jvroig @ July 19 2005,1:39)]Hello!
Just wanted a clarification: Am I reading this thread correctly - that arms don't really get bigger with the isolation exercises (dumbbell curls) but with the compound exercises like benchpresses?
If that's the case, that means even heavy dumbbell curls are, at best, just "helpers" for the compound exercises to make arms grow bigger. That probably means I can go easy on dumbbell curls and triceps pressdown and concentrate more on bench presses. Is that correct?
But why did The Boss Bryan Haycock recommend putting arm exercises (like dumbbell curls) at the very start of the routine to someone in the past who wanted to know what to do because his arms were lagging behind?
That's about it. I'm usually silent and don't ask questions (i just read a ton), but I decided to make an exception with this one as it is really interesting for me.
Thanks.
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Ehhhh ....

The heavy compounds are your base. They cover your whole body and induce full body growth/stimulis. I'd suggest working your arms still, especially if you want them to grow. Not saying they won't grow doing only compounds, they will. But for a bodybuilding look, work your arms. They'll grow faster. With arm work you'll just be adding more stimulis to them besides the compounds.
 
following advice given here, in this cycle that i'm completing now, i did minimal direct work for arms starting at 10s, meaning one set of preacher curls and one set of triceps extension after back and chest work. then on 5s i added incline curls and skull crushers. i'm still in the beginning of my negs, but i've already put on 11lbs and 1/2" on my arms.  
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (addy @ July 19 2005,12:34)]following advice given here, in this cycle that i'm completing now, i did minimal direct work for arms starting at 10s, meaning one set of preacher curls and one set of triceps extension after back and chest work. then on 5s i added incline curls and skull crushers. i'm still in the beginning of my negs, but i've already put on 11lbs and 1/2" on my arms.
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Beautiful results, good job!
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