Dips/Chinups and incrementing load

[krytie]

I'm a bit confused as to how to incorporate dips and chinups into a HST program if the maximum number of reps you can do is say about 8.

At the start of the 15s should I aim for about 4 reps and then try to increment that number for each workout

During my 10s and 5s I could start using a weight belt and increase the weight as I progress from workout to workout.

Regardless of the fact that I won’t be achieving the target rep max of 15,10,5 at the end of each mesocycle, as long as I’m progressively and proportionally increasing the weight and reps will this be OK?

 

[Dianabol]

Dear krytie,

1. as long as I’m progressively and proportionally increasing the weight and reps will this be OK?

>>>> Yes, progressive loading as opposed to progressive overloading is fine. The rep scheme is but a suggestion since it is more important to adhere to the principles of HST. Interestingly, the 15s phase isn't supposed to be too demanding since it is a phase designed to restore injury. For this reason, you might wish to do pull-downs in place of chins and only embark on the chins from the 10s and thereafter.

Still, any chance of your doing assisted dips and chins? Some recommend cheating on concentric while controlling the eccentric as a means of meeting your rep count. You could stand on a box or something, to use your legs to aid in the concentric phase...

Then again, a strength-endurance type of protocol to build your ability in the dips and chins might be prudent now. If we wished not to employ pull-downs in the 15s and dive into the chins straight away, we could do this - using the box as described above, aim to do 15 good negative reps for the 15s phase? Let's not bother with progressive loading with the 15s. Just do the negative reps, resting between reps to avoid failure, until you hit 15 reps. For the last workout of 15s, rep it out to 15 or failure, whichever comes first, and if failure comes first, rest for a bit then do more reps until you hit 15.

Come the 10s, we'd add some weight to this with a weight-belt or something, and you proceed to the 10s as you had done for the 10s. We do the same for the 5s. This can be very gruelling though, so it might be in your best interest to limit your chest and back exercises to two at most. Dips plus dumbbell presses, chins plus one-armed row or something like that. If not, dips and chins are a good start anyhow.

Alternatively, since you can do 8 good reps, do three sets of five to get 15 reps for the 15s phase. On the final workout for the 15s, rep it out to failure, then cheat away (on the concentric but be strict on the eccentric) as necessary to do a straight set of 15s. For the 10s, do two sets of five to get 10 reps for the 10s phase, but add weight to this. For the final 10s workout, do a drop set upon hitting failure, and/or cheat away to be able to a straight set of 10 reps. Same for the 5s.

You might even wish to use small increments e.g. 1lb or 2lbs for each workout just to see if this can be tolerated.

Godspeed, and happy HSTing

 

[Dianabol]

A caveat about the dips and chins, or any other exercise that has a great ROM for the shoulder girdle - don't go overboard on the stretch. This will cause more harm than good. The worse is to hang freely on the bars, letting your joints bear the brunt of your bodyweight. This is a definite no-no, since even a small but nagging injury to the shoulder or any other joint can end up being the last straw that break the camel's back.

 

[[xeno]Julios]

Quote[/b] (Dianabol @ Jan. 24 2004,9:01)]A caveat about the dips and chins, or any other exercise that has a great ROM for the shoulder girdle - don't go overboard on the stretch. This will cause more harm than good. The worse is to hang freely on the bars, letting your joints bear the brunt of your bodyweight. This is a definite no-no, since even a small but nagging injury to the shoulder or any other joint can end up being the last straw that break the camel's back.

i'm glad i read this - i've gotten in the habit of doing one arm hanging stretches at the end of a workout

 

[CyberSteak]

I've always done the same at the end of a workout. Hang from the bar to stretch my spine. I remember reading to do that in Franco Columbo's book way back when I was in high school. So this is a bad thing???

 

[Dianabol]

Dear CyberSteak,

You have a delicious user-name, most virtual perhaps

1. I've always done the same at the end of a workout. Hang from the bar to stretch my spine. I remember reading to do that in Franco Columbo's book way back when I was in high school. So this is a bad thing???

>>>> Yes, this is a bad way to decompress the spine. A better way would be to walk in water. Seeing your chiropractor helps too, but if axial compression is a concern, limit those exercises that really place great direct loading. Shurgs, deadlifts and squats are notorious. I am somewhat divided as to the virtues of the squat and deadlift in building muscle. True, they can be good exercises but I've seen many with impressive physiques from leg presses, rows and chins - no squats nor deadlifts whatsoever.

This is something you decide for yourself though, since I do see great value in the squat and deadlift, but if someone wanted to eliminate all such risks, I'd have him/her do leg presses, chins and rows.

Godspeed, and happy HSTing

 

[Busenfreund1]

Fortunately we have the machine for assisted chins/dips here, but as I just saw this threat, I was wondering, where to get a fitting belt to make chins/dips under higher load than body wheight.

Anyone can give me a hint, how such a belt (with a chain I assume) looks like, and where to get such device (a mailorder company here somewhere in Europe would be nice)?

I already searched a little, but I couldn't fine anything.

I only have a normal BB belt, but there is nothing on it for fixing additional wheights.

 

[Guest]

I couldn't do many chinups when I started, either. I'd say to do as many as you can strictly, then cheat for the remaining reps. And this will sound awful, but I used to bend my feet back so that I was on the knuckles of my toes to ensure that I couldn't cheat too much (because it HURTS)

. Try that at your own risk. And yes, never fully extend any joint under weight. However, you can still get a pretty good stretch hanging that way, just don't fully extend your arms, and concentrate on letting the back stretch. It's harder than you might think to do both at once.

A weighted belt looks like a regular belt, but it is usually padded and it has straps that let the weight hang between your legs. I have no idea where you'd get one, but try a search using "bodybuilding" or "weightlifting" as key words. It should pop up several supply joints- more of those than good information sites like this one.

 

[stylesP]

(This is something I already posted on the HST Training thread, but since it's on this topic I thought I would post it again here.)

"Volume does not replace load, but it does significantly contribute to the potency of the growth signal. So, increasing the volume is a good idea if load cannot be increased. However, increasing the number of reps per set will be less effective than increasing the number of sets."


I would like to apply what Bryan said to bodyweight excercises.
I previously set-up my training so that I kept the total # of reps about constant and increased the max rep for each week.


For pull-ups I did:
4 x 4 (week 1-2), 6 x 3 (week 3-4), 8 x 1-2 (week 5-8)


I was thinking to change it to something like:
4 x 2 (Week 1)
4 x 3 (Week 2)
4 x 4
4 x 5
5 x 4
5 x 5


I suspect 5 x 5 would be as much as I could do without it affecting the rest of my workout too much ( I also do rows). Would this method be more effective according to HST principles?