Cutting at the wrong time

It is a personal decision quadancer...the bottom line is "do you want to lose fat more than you want to gain muscle?"  If the answer is yes, then it is time to cut.  If the answer is no, then don't cut, you need more muscle mass.
 
OH also to add jonny.

As for doing cardio...to lose fat I have never had to I have always preferred to watch what I eat meaning eat clean.

Now this past year thanks to Totentanz and some others I did not eat clean...I just watched my overall calorie intake.

Cardio is good for the heart though...and I think I remember someone on HST forum recommending last year that HIIT cardio is good for visceral fat inside the body?
 
Here is my opinion on areobics. If you want to be a huge guy that looks like he can take you out in one blow, but in reality can hardly run after you, that is fine. I honestly thing that you can take all the necissary precautions simply by eating constantly through the day and taking your muscle-breakdown-prevention supps, you can do as much cardio as you want. (If calories permit though)

Repetative i know:
If you are trying to gain mass you eat a little bit more than you require.

To cut burn off some of the maintenance.


The amount of muscle mass loss is completely dependant on how fast you want to lose that fat. I mean lets face it if you have a defecit of 50 calories a day, it might take a really long time to lose a couple pounds but I am sure you will not even notice any muscle mass loss.
 
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(scientific muscle @ Nov. 28 2006,22:25)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">It is a personal decision quadancer...the bottom line is &quot;do you want to lose fat more than you want to gain muscle?&quot;  If the answer is yes, then it is time to cut.  If the answer is no, then don't cut, you need more muscle mass.</div>
It IS time. My goals have always been to be one of the guys who can wear a loose shirt, but everyone can easily see that it's not some average joe (no offense, Joe) under the shirt. But at this point in my bulk, my gut looks like a modern 'roider gut, but without the 'roider mass overall, which means my gut extends out past my chest a bit. Any fatter and I won't look like a BB at all, just a fat guy.
The issue of this thread was timing. I have a short time to cut, then bulk, then cut again before March/April when it's showtime (beaches and lakes, not contest). So I'm looking for a fast cut with the least muscle loss possible, rather than a long, slow cut the proper way. I'll be depending on RBE for a quick return to size. Then a definite caloric overload for an anabolic response beyond that.
It's just a personal goal, for the purpose of having a goal and a plan. Without which, I get kinda willy-nilly and loose. I'll take some B&amp;A shots too. And from what I've read in this website, 5x5 seems to be a pretty good alternative for a cycle.
One other thing I've been pondering is why not cut halfway through your 5's and through the deload, and bulk the other 5-6 weeks regularly?
 
Loose it quickly !

Chicken breast, tuna, egg whites....and cardio.

Boring but efficient!
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I know what you mean about showtime too...all of us bb think the same !
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Lol Joe, that is pretty much my diet right now........even though i am bulking. Just eat a ton of it all, which is nice because it is the cleanest way to bulk.
No perservatives, added sugars, and barely any processed carbs...unless you want to disclude Harvest grain bread.
 
Are you sure you are bulking on that kind of diet?

You would have to eat a ton of chicken breat and tuna just to reach mainetance as a teenager.

Maybe you should look into eating more calorie dense foods...burgers, peanut butter, steak...you know.

If you are going to bulk...dont worry about eating clean per se.

Others here will agree!
 
Yeah i know i am, because i am putting on a little bit of fat. I eat about 3-4 chicken breasts , 3-4 protein shakes, 3-4 eggs, bowl of oatmeal, couple servings of brown rice. I change the chicken breast up with about .8pounds of salmon or 3-4 fillets of tilapia. Half of those chicken breast are eat for lunch in the form of Boarshead roleups with avocado slices. I also eat around 4-6 servings of fruit. I occasionally eat 2-4 slices of bread. For snacks i eat raw almonds.

I might change to more calorie  dense foods once my LBM is around 160
 
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(faz @ Nov. 29 2006,11:30)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">if you want to lose weight fast you could try this.
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=05-009-diet</div>
I like his thinking. I'm looking at the same for EFA's, maybe adding olive oil to my soup plus salmon. I've seen too much negative press for lowcarb diets, but they DO work for a while...only I'm like most people, hopelessly carb addicted!
Another trick I've used (carefully) is using small bowls of Fibre One cereal (or All-Bran) for fibre. Just DON'T DO WHAT I DID the first time, eating a LARGE bowl of it...after the next day I walked around like a cowboy for 3 days. The body has to get used to slowly increasing amounts of fibre. Using the veggie soup I shouldn't need it.

One point of interest was that the first time I used the meatless soup diet, when the fat started burning off, my energy levels went through the roof! I was working 11 hours a day, no problem! I'm hoping for that again. I was maybe 45 then.
I just lost as much or more muscle than fat due to no protein. So this time, it's meat and whey. I think the veggies and vitamins would be much healthier than his experiment, and I've actually wanted to try this ever since I thought of it years ago.
Unlike Chris Shugart, I'm not writing an article on my experimental diet before I TRY IT first! It was an interesting read though. The soup diet was originally from the same intent: crashing weight off of obese patients for emergency surgery.
 
The money isn't as bad as you'd think for that. I buy groceries for my mom and i am a kid of 4 so i spend 40-60 dollars every 2-4 days for food. If you think about it, that is only 5600 dollars a year on food for a whole family. I buy supps with my own money. It all works out.

I cut out beef and ground meat so it is all good.
 
Quad I'd suggest a low-carb diet over a &quot;vegie-soup&quot; diet, I'd rather eat steak, bacon, eggs etc. all day than that infernal soup...god that would drive me crazy. Don't you get to the point where if you even look at the soup you'll dry wretch?

How's it going with the TRT? that will help you a lot with the cutting and bulking.

Interesting these guys cutting to 8% with no cardio...have to try that...
 
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(quadancer @ Nov. 27 2006,19:54)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I did the soup diet a long time ago, lost a pound a day and most of my muscle with it. But there was NO protein and no exersize. I want to crashdiet the weight off a lot smarter and then next cycle bulk harder, doing a 5x5 routine.
Opinions guys?</div>
Dumbdumbdumbdumbdumbdumbdumbdumb....dadada dumb....dadada dumb....dadada dumb dumb dumb

If that's what you think you should do, then best of luck with it, but I still think it's dumb.  No matter what the diet is, you just can't crash diet for the best results Quad, particularly as you get older.  IMO, you have one of two options
1.  Slowly cut until Spring (or at least 16 weeks), then slowly start bulking slightly over maintenance and you'll still look good in the summer
2.  Keep bulking, make gains, and just deal with the fat until spring and then start cutting...look great in summer

Just an opinion from a fan
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I think Steve is right on this one.

There seems to be a sweet spot my body gets into between a long cut and a slow bulk.

Were I look way bigger than my cut and my abs still show.

Shirt also get tighter...however this sweet spot only last up until around 14% bf.

But between 8% and 12% there is not much difference except I am a lot fuller.

However the weird thing is...that this is not true when I reverse the process.

Going from Bulk to a cut???

Dont ask me how...I guess it has to something to do with glycogen.

But again if you cut down real low and then slowly bulk up again...my body seems to look way better that way?

My 3 cents
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(Peak_Power @ Nov. 29 2006,21:29)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Quad I'd suggest a low-carb diet over a &quot;vegie-soup&quot; diet, I'd rather eat steak, bacon, eggs etc. all day than that infernal soup...god that would drive me crazy. Don't you get to the point where if you even look at the soup you'll dry wretch?

How's it going with the TRT? that will help you a lot with the cutting and bulking.</div>
I DID nearly &quot;lose my lunch&quot; the last time I tried it, and quit at day 16...16 lbs. lighter. This time it will be with meats added (different things each day), plus oatmeal in the mornings, salads with meat to break it up. shakes, and a few things like that. And it IS low carb, just healthy carbs without fillers of any kind. I'm only going to be on it a month or less; it's an experiment, since regular cutting seems to eat so much muscle on me. I never tried a high protein crash. When we're older, the rules change. To what, I'm still finding out.

I can't afford the TRT, am doing some supps. See it here:
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.info/cgi-bin....t=12831
 
Crash dieting is a bad idea unless you have assistance to prevent muscle loss. The velocity diet looks like bad news too, unless you have assistance to prevent muscle loss. The supplements he recommends... I doubt those will prevent muscle loss. Almost nothing legal works for that anymore, unless you get some of those new designer steroids that are still legal. Otherwise, I would never do any diet where you lose more than a couple pounds a week.
 
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