Can Creatine Increase Your Natural Limit And ? Long Jack, Ursolic Acid, And L-carnitine-citrate

Discussion in 'Anything and Everything about dietary supplements' started by UCS1932, Aug 18, 2018.

  1. UCS1932

    UCS1932 New Member

    Hello Everyone,

    Creatine can increase the number of myonuclei in muscle cells as well as increase satellite cell activation, which would indicate it could increase your natural limit. What are your thoughts on this?

    According to studies, the herb long jack has been proven to increase testosterone in hypogonadal men, so how would it effect a 38 year old man with normal testosterone levels?

    I wanted Bryan’s thoughts on Ursolic Acid which can increase muscle IGF-1 and seems to cause mostly fat loss with some slight lean body mass gains.

    Also what is Bryan’s opinion on L-Carnitine-Citrate which can increase androgen receptors in muscle tissue and thus making your muscles more receptive to your natural testosterone level?
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
  2. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Active Member

    Am also curious about creatine :)
  3. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    My hunch re: creatine is that it *might* increase the rate of satellite cell donating nuclei, rather than the absolute number - as opposed to a steroids impact.

    Creatine’s profile of effect is all about activity; things happen more efficiently. Not sure it moves the needle.
    _Simon_ likes this.
  4. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator Staff Member

    Creatine will not increase your natural limit as far as muscle mass goes. There are many many factors that play into just how much muscle tissue you can naturally maintain. That being said, creatine can certainly help support your progress as you strive to hit your natural limit. I personally have used creatine for about 25 years now.

    No supplement currently on the market will meaningfully and consistently increase your testosterone levels.

    Ursolic acid is a very interesting compound. It works wonders in mice. The trouble with ursolic acid is that it is difficult to take enough of the existing products on the market to get sufficient ursolic acid to have an effect (if there is one). My interest in it revolves around myostatin. I've been taking herbal sources of ursolic acid on and off for a few years. Haven't noticed much, but that doesn't mean it isn't doing anything. Then again, I have no solid data to show that it is doing anything.

    I think carnitine is a decent supplement. I don't think I would rely on it to boost androgen receptors though. Your training will do that just fine.
  5. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    I thought carnitine was more for fat loss? (long chain fats ==>mitochondria)
  6. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator Staff Member

    Correct. It's just difficult to get it to go into muscle cells.
    NWlifter likes this.
  7. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    Ah ok, thanks Brian!
  8. UCS1932

    UCS1932 New Member

    Hello Bryan,

    Could you please explain how Creatine would not increase one’s natural limit when it does increase the number of myonuclei and satellite cells? I mean how is what Creatine does with regard to myonuclei and satellite cells different than AAS?
  9. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

  10. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

  11. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    It probably does.. I wonder if a person used it, stopped, used it again, is it a one time thing? Seems nuclear donation is kinda , not permanent but long term-ish..
  12. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator Staff Member

    Hi USC 1932. Welcome to the forum. Creatine and AAS have two distinct mechanisms. The difference in the mechanisms explains why AAS can increase natural limits for lean tissue mass, and creatine cannot.

    AAS are androgens. They interact with nuclear receptors in cells. They initiate gene expression as well as cause acute reactions in some tissues (e.g. CNS activation). Because AAS have the ability to control what genes are expressed in a muscle cell, they have a meaningful effect on cell growth, metabolism, and other processes.

    Creatine acts mostly to support intracellular energy availability. Energy (i.e. ATP) for protein synthesis comes mainly through the phosphocreatine energy shuttle. Because creatine supplementation can increase phosphocreatine by as much as 20% it can increase cellular activities that may run into an ATP bottleneck.

    Because of these differences, creatine can perhaps increase (optimize?) the rate of growth from effective training and diet, but it cannot overcome genetic limits on how much muscle mass the body can retain. AAS obviously can and does temporarily increase genetic limits for how much muscle mass you can carry.
    NWlifter likes this.

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