Balanced diet

Thanks, it appears that my "Suprailiac" part is the most pronounced among the ones you mentioned. I could hardly pinch my thigh or chest (both around 10), strangely can't easily pinch my abdominals "vertically" although there's tons of fat there. But I can fold my Midaxillary easily, and it's huuge, up to 50 in some places... I gotta learn how to starve .
 
HST_Rihad said:
Thanks, Totentanz, do you think this one will do? It's simple, cheap & has free delivery to where I live. I wonder why you're not using an electronic tester available from the site you provided, it's so much easier.

I finally saw on that illustration where exactly to pinch the fat. I can tell you mine is easily 25-30 mm.

View attachment 2166
Click to expand...

I don't think this picture is correct... I think you are supposed to measure abdominatl skin folks 1-2" to the right of the navel... also, it should be a vertical skin fold, not horizontal. (someone correct me if I'm wrong)
 
Throw away the calipers, electronics, etc and just use the mirror. How can knowing a very elusive number possibly make you look better? Keep it simple.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
nativetroutbum said:
I don't think this picture is correct... I think you are supposed to measure abdominatl skin folks 1-2" to the right of the navel... also, it should be a vertical skin fold, not horizontal. (someone correct me if I'm wrong)
Click to expand...
You can measure in several different ways: http://www.linear-software.com/malesites.html
Depends on where most fat is in each individual case, I guess. But those are the usual places.

Old and Grey said:
Throw away the calipers, electronics, etc and just use the mirror. How can knowing a very elusive number possibly make you look better? Keep it simple.
Click to expand...
You're right, but the mirror can't tell me if I'm on the right track. So I ordered one yesterday, it wouldn't hurt and would make tracking progress easier, and allow me to adjust things as necessary.
 
Last edited:
Guys, following up on my discussion with Blade one last time. Some may find it useful.
Borge, just to top things off, this assumes that an individual is training 100% naturally? I.e. no tren, slin, gh or some such?

BTW the distinction between dieting for bulk/cut seems blurry. Does it mean a person willing to cut would lower calories even further, or he would just “lean bulk” this way forever?
Click to expand...

Of course, I don’t recommend the use of illegal drugs anywhere in the article or here in the comment section, do I?


That is because I hate the terms “bulk” and “cut” in the traditional sense of the wording. People will diet for 3-6 months on excessive deficits and cardio, get lean but lose a lot of muscle. Then they switch to bulk-mode and eat 1000kcals or more above maintenance needs and gain muscle at the same rate as they would on a more moderate surplus, but also gain a ton of fat. Which they proceed to spend the next 3-6 months dieting off while losing all the muscle they just gained. And on and on it goes.

I recommend you adopt a more gradual approach, adjusting calories according to progress weekly or bi-weekly, being patient and monitoring strength, bf%, weight, hunger, energy to name a few. This way you can push things in the right direction by small and incremental changes.
Click to expand...

http://borgefagerli.com/myo-reps-in-english/#comment-542

I think by saying "People will diet for 3-6 months on excessive deficits and cardio, get lean but lose a lot of muscle."
Blade is neglecting the fact that HST does allow to stay in chronic protein synthesis surplus thanks to SD + gradual weight progression. So mass losses would be minimal even during cut.
Just my humble opinion though.

But overall, the claimed ability to progress without putting on much fat by tracking variables and paying attention to detail seems attractive.
 
Last edited:
HST_R, I think your biggest obstacle is the computer. Stop over-analyzing and workout and eat simpler. The stressing you are doing by trying to get every detail perfect is creating more cortisol secretion which is negating some of your potential gains. Be happy and be pleased with each small gain. The sum of all those gains will show in the future. It won't show overnight. The turtle wins in the end. :cool:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
HST_Rihad said:
Guys, following up on my discussion with Blade one last time. Some may find it useful.




http://borgefagerli.com/myo-reps-in-english/#comment-542

I think by saying "People will diet for 3-6 months on excessive deficits and cardio, get lean but lose a lot of muscle."
Blade is neglecting the fact that HST does allow to stay in chronic protein synthesis surplus thanks to SD + gradual weight progression. So mass losses would be minimal even during cut.
Just my humble opinion though.

But overall, the claimed ability to progress without putting on much fat by tracking variables and paying attention to detail seems attractive.
Click to expand...

If his view of bulking and cutting as described in those sentences represents how you bulk and cut, then yes, it is stupid to keep doing that.

I know very few people making progress who bulk on 1000 calories over maintenance, or who use excessive deficits with too much cardio.

Obviously in my experience, bulking and cutting has not resulted in what he described, as if it did, I would still be under 150 lbs @ <10% bodyfat. But I'm pretty sure his point was that you need to make adjustments and use proper judgement when bulking or cutting. Not sure where the whole gaining muscle without a calorie excess idea came from. I know zero people who have managed to do that.
 
<cite class="fn">Borge</cite>

January 10, 2013 at 11:42 am


I am not omnipotent, no – but I do this all the time with my clients and it is measured via DXA. It does require that a lifter is still below his genetic potential, and someone like Totentanz who is at the very upper limits of what he can achieve naturally – and also quite lean if he looks anything like his avatar pic – it will be impossible. So it is about context. And you can quote me on that.

And to add: “I know very few people making progress who bulk on 1000 calories over maintenance, or who use excessive deficits with too much cardio.”

He must have a very special and competent circle of friends then, because this is the way most people in the general population approach bulking and dieting and even how many quite competent coaches approach it. If everyone is using sensible approaches, how come there aren’t more lean and muscular people who have achieved their dream physiques in gyms everywhere? Where are these people who can do sensible bulks and moderate deficits with just enough cardio to create steady rates of fat loss without muscle loss? I fear that his competence has created myopia for what others are actually doing.
 
I think you've managed to go back and forth between him and I and got us saying basically the same stuff but in a contrary way. Good job. You succeeded in trolling both of us. I'm not getting in a pissing match with Borge, he obviously knows what he is talking about and has trained a lot of people.
 
nativetroutbum said:
I am eager to see your progress, HST_R, now that you've gotten this whole "bulk/cut" thing nailed down...

Good luck.
Click to expand...
Thanks, but now that I know it doesn't mean I'm mentally ready to follow it! I do try to merge some of the ideas of LeanGains (IF) into my schedule. I go to bed at around 11:30-12 pm, last meal about an hour prior to that, wake up around 8-9 am and do not eat until noon on days free from gym. That's not exactly 16 hours of fasting, more like 13.
 
Just my 2 cents; I'm no expert, and definitely no fitness model... but it sounds like you're doing too much thinking/analyzing/stressing and not enough DOING. If you know what to do; "just do it." Track your results here and your successes will hopefully help to motivate others; your failures will inform.

Theoretical discussions are sometimes good, but "doing" is where the theory meets reality.

Either way, good luck to you!
 
Well, I certainly do shut up and lift 3 days in a week. Thinking is what makes us different from most other animals. Or at least trying to think in the right direction.
 
I like Borge's idea of "auto-regulating" training and nutrition. It takes some experience do this, but if you've been into bodybuilding for years, then I think it is definitely the way to go. I never particularly liked traditional bulk and cut cycles, though they work well for newbies and people who are already very lean. Taking a "recompositioning" strategy and doing shorter cycles of bulk and cuts as needed for training, can often result in a leaner physique, though in the long run, I am not sure which method would be superior. I tend towards the slower method of bulking myself, but that is also due to my age and current bodyfat levels.
 
My only issue with "slow bulks" and things along those lines is that calorie counting is, in reality, all estimation anyway. If you try to get a slight surplus, odds are that you are not getting the slight surplus you think you are. You are either getting more or less than you think you are. Seems like most people who have come to this site and attempted such things didn't make real great progress. I know of a few who have been around (off and on) as long as me, started around the same size as me and are now a fraction of the size as me. Seems we should all have made the same general progress over the years, especially considering that my progress has been greatly hindered by crap from life that has popped up a lot over the years.
 
Totentanz said:
My only issue with "slow bulks" and things along those lines is that calorie counting is, in reality, all estimation anyway. If you try to get a slight surplus, odds are that you are not getting the slight surplus you think you are. You are either getting more or less than you think you are. Seems like most people who have come to this site and attempted such things didn't make real great progress. I know of a few who have been around (off and on) as long as me, started around the same size as me and are now a fraction of the size as me. Seems we should all have made the same general progress over the years, especially considering that my progress has been greatly hindered by crap from life that has popped up a lot over the years.
Click to expand...

Yeah, my feeling is that in the long run, your method of bulking and cutting is most likely faster, and more successful. If I had to do it that way, I would start off as lean as possible first. So I'd cut to 10% or so, and then bulk up from there to 15%, then cut down to 10%, and so forth. What do you think of that plan?
 
Well, I originally started out around 6-8% or something like that, I was absurdly lean. But I've rarely cut down significantly below 10% for the last few years and my bulks went fine. I actually bulked up to above 20% a couple years back and it was one of my best bulks ever. It's up to you though, just depends on how easily you can diet back down. For many people, it's probably a good idea to stay closer to lean. One possible negative of bulking up beyond 15% is that many people can let it get out of control and gain too fast. I think really this is why people like Borge think that 'traditional' bulking is so bad, because many people take it as a license to gain weight rapidly, probably because they see examples of people bulking on AAS and think that they can achieve similar results as a natural.
It takes much longer as a natural. You can't pack the pounds on like crazy unless you want to be dieting it back off for a long time. If you are prepared to diet for 6 months or longer then that's fine, go ahead. As a rule of thumb, I actually try to keep bulking and cutting periods about equal in length. This might sound weird, but if you gain 30 lbs over x months, it should take x months to drop back down if you want to retain as much muscle as necessary.

Honestly, I think cutting is where people mess it up the most. They cut too hard and too fast. Most people cannot do this without losing tremendous strength and muscle.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top