Skipping the 15s

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by jeffw, Sep 21, 2004.

  1. BoSox

    BoSox New Member

    same reason no one talks much about their 9RM or their 13RM.
     
  2. vicious

    vicious New Member

    I start at what would be mid-15s load and do that for a week, then increment normally to finish 2 weeks of 15s. Trick is to find a sweet spot between your starting load and SD so that you at least feel some very light DOMS (or just tightness) the next day.

    cough,
    Jules
     
  3. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    I've actually found that the opposite concerning the 1st week of 15s. After taking 2 weeks off for SD, the first week is actually more intense (in the sense that it feels like hell :p) than the second week. After taking 2 weeks off you're not used to the workout physically, with all the high reps.
     
  4. vicious

    vicious New Member

    I very much hate 15s. When it doesn't burn like hell, it's tedious. When it isn't tedious, it burns like hell. [​IMG]

    At least for me, I go through different mental processes when I do 15s, 10s, and 5s. I don't feel the length of a set when I do 10s or 5s, but for me 15s is about knowing how to allocate my neural drive and rep-speed so I can make through 15 DLs or squats.

    cheers,
    Jules
     
  5. Lance

    Lance New Member

    If you're only going to do one week of 15's, how would you progress the weights?

    Just knock off your first week of 15's? Or make very large increments to compensate?
     
  6. vicious

    vicious New Member

    Most people who just knock off the 1st week of 15s. If you were repeating loads, you could start a little bit lower than the "mid-point" load for 15s and do a more linear progression. The advantage is that you get to start at a higher load whereby you can increase the probability of significant growth from your 1st workout on.

    cheers,
    Jules
     
  7. Tcup

    Tcup New Member

    I`ve been doing with and without 15`s. Now i`ve also been thinking about shortening it to one week only. As said first week is like waving your arms (throw your hands in the air like you just don`t care) .

    Best results i got with discarding the 15`s and adding extra one week with 10 maxes. Oh man that was hypertrophic [​IMG] but on the downside my tendons were killing me without forgetting overtraining :confused:
     
  8. Dood

    Dood New Member

    I've done my 2 weeks of 15's in one week: Workout M T W, take Thursday off, then workout Fr Sat Sun, or some variation of that. It can be rather taxing.
    This time I did the full two weeks because I was coming off the flu and was weak as crap, but I think next cycle I'll only do 5 workouts of 15s, and do them all in one week: M T, Wed off, Th Fr Sat.
     
  9. mdz0739

    mdz0739 New Member

    On my next cycle, which will begin at the end of next week, I'm going to skip the 15's altogether and start in the 10's. I finished the last cycle with very little or no joint pain. I am going to still do an 8 week cycle though. Because I like the 5's and feel I get the most growth in them, I'm going to extend them several weeks.

    I'm thinking about performing each 5's workout two times in a row before advancing in weight. This will stretch the 2 weeks into 4. At the end of the 4th week, I will go into a week of 5RM's, adding weight where I can, and then a week of dropsets.

    Any thoughts?

    Mike
     
  10. Sonny

    Sonny New Member

    If everyone had read the HST articles there would not even
    be this discussion
    "Utilizing lactic acid as a stimulus for tendon repair/health"
    Now HST incorporates a few other things such as higher reps (for lactic acid) to prepare the muscles and tendons for future heavy loads. This serves as "regular maintenance". Without it, you increase your risk of chronic injuries and pain. The metabolically-taxing reps enhance healing of strained tendons.
    And just belive me it works
    Thanks
    Sonny
     
  11. LittleBigHorn

    LittleBigHorn New Member

    I know this post is from way back, but for what it's worth, I've found that only doing one week of 15's works like a charm. I used to do the whole deal, and ended up feeling overtrained by the time I got to my 6's (I do 6's instead of 5's... for no particular reason). It's as if I spent too much energy and "drained" myself completely in the 15's block, so I figured I'd modify my cycle so that I could still reap the lactic acid benefits and avoid burning myself out. 1 week with light weights is just perfect.
     
  12. skinnyman

    skinnyman New Member

    i do 15s to prevent myself from hurting my joints when i go on to the heavyweights :D
    i'm terribly scared of injuries..
     
  13. I just finished my first cycle of 15s. I'm totally new to HST, but am so pleased with (and surprised by!) my progress thus far that I wouldn't even consider not doing the 15s.

    Plus, at 38, I need to be mindful of my joints and tendons. Can't keep grinding away with the heavy stuff without paying a price there.
     
  14. mdz0739

    mdz0739 New Member

    Another benefit of the 15's that I get out of them is the stamina building.

    I skipped the 15's on my current cycle and it took me until about the 3rd workout in my 10's before I had my full stamina back from the SD. (I'm having a great cycle so far though!)

    mdz
     
  15. ian

    ian New Member

    im a big skeptic when ir comes to HST. im reading posts of people putting on loadsa weight during the 15s, and i cant see the logic behind it.

    Doing 15s is more like a cardio session to me and 10mins after the workout im fine.

    +as far as being good for the ligaments, rekon thats rubbish too. the only reason you dont get injured is because doing 15s u dont lift that heavy. when I get to the 5s and im just doin one set of super heavy weights im gona have to warm up 4 ages first. Im quite sure that even after an 40min walk to the gym and a decent warm up, unless i do loads of sets building up to my 5rep max on something like squats, i really will be risking injury.

    I no someone will tell me sum science and say im wrong, but I bet arnie didnt understand all of that,he definetly didnt use HST and he didnt do too bad.
     
  16. I'm not gonna say you're wrong. ;) You believe what you believe and hey it's all good, whatever makes you happy. Just remember your conditioning level is different than a lot of people here, you've been training for how many years now?, bunches right? that makes a difference. Can someone gain during the 15's? sure, is it relative to their conditioning level? Again Sure. So skeptic or not, some do see change in the 15's.

    JMTC take it or leave it :D
     
  17. ian

    ian New Member

    Yeah your right there! (Sorry, were all different, I forgot)

    DKM do u no were I can get a routine for a bodybuilder thats trained for years doin 1 body part a day and about 20 sets for each one (ie old methods) I no I suppose to be able to work it out from the threads, but there too much science involved.

    Surely most people (that have trained for a while) used my old methods of training first. Therefore there must be loadsa people that want a similar routine. Im not bein lazy, as u prob know Ive been on the site since I started HST, I just needa routine without all the clever stuff.

    Because at the moment (the 15s) while I aknowledge they are something different and at the end of the day the change will be a shock to the system, they do feel like a cardio sesh.
    PLEASE HELP!!!
     
  18. Sure do a search on Boris Kleine, Blade posted Boris' workout a while back, also read Blades workout, I believe it's very close to what is posted in the Optimizing HST post in the FAQ. But either of these should get ya going. Oh BTW IM O&G (Old and Grey), he uses a routine very similar and I'm sure he could help ya also.
     
  19. ian

    ian New Member

    Thanks loads!!! [​IMG]
     
  20. robefc

    robefc New Member

    Ignoring the 'flushing with lactic acid' side of things because its been dealt with I always do '15s' simply because I want to start with the lowest possible weight that's effective so that I can use more increments and have a longer cycle (extend it at the other end with all the tricks that vicious has taught us too!) and therefore grow more...I don't really separate it into '15s' and '10s' etc anymore, I pick the lowest weights I think will give me some stimulus after sd and then just increase them every workout, doing as many weights as feels comfortable.

    I figure the longer the cycle the more time I'm spending working out and growing and the less time I'm spending in between cycles...having said that I think a longer sd is necessary to start with lighter weights.

    I do enjoy coming into the gym and scooting round just doing one easy set with no warm up for each exercise, takes 10 minutes for my entire workout excluding cardio...and as I start getting bored and wanting to train more the sessions naturally get harder as the weights go up.

    One exception to this is my current cycle, I'm going on holiday and wanted to fit in a mini cycle before I went so I started on heavier weights...it was forced upon me but I don't feel half as good as when I do a longer cycle and start on lighter weights.

    Cheers

    Rob
     

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