Refeeds not necessary when cutting up?

Discussion in 'Diet & Nutrition' started by LittleBigHorn, Apr 14, 2005.

  1. LittleBigHorn

    LittleBigHorn New Member

    Either I'm doing something terribly wrong here, or natural dieting down to a 'ripped' bf% just isn't a very viable thing unless you have great genetics (except with a cutting up regimen such as UD2, maybe, that requires insane amounts of tinkering and takes a crazy person to live through). This is the conclusion I've reached from several failed attempts at pushing down to a bf% that would be considered 'ripped' by most.
    Anyway, long story short, I started this current cutter I'm on at around 15% BF and at a bodyweight of 185 lbs. I did as Bryan Haycock suggested, eating at least at maintenance during my 15s and slowly increasing the amount of cardio I was doing till I reached the maximum amount I was going to stick with throughout the entire cutter. Well, I shredded some fat at first, but then the process slowed down considerably. I thought I'd change things up a little, and started doing twice a day full body workouts, as per the standard HST layout, except I'm doing a 15s workout in the evening in stead of two 10s or 6s, with one set per exercise in both workouts. This, as I've read on the forums, is supposed to give you a great boost to your fat burning. I'm also still doing 3x a week of moderate intensity cardio on my off days for 30 minutes. Now, if you're still reading, I applaud you. This is when things have started to turn tough.
    It's like I've lost at least a little fat everywhere on my body, but not a single gram has come off from the spare tire area beneath the upper set of my pecs all around to the sides and back. I'm doing very high frequency weight lifting combined with cardio, low carbs, and 2300 calories, and I'm not losing fat AT ALL any more. Hell, I'm starting to feel like I'm actually gaining back some of the fat I lost during the beginning of my cutter, even though I was eating more and exercising less back then. What the #### is going on here, if you'll excuse my language!?
    I'm so sick and tired of doing everything humanly possible to get rid of that goddamed spare tire, and it's not coming off. I'm also hanging on a very delicate thread between overtraining and coping with the amount of physical strain I'm putting myself through, so if someone wants to suggest I lower my calories even further, they can keep it to themselves.
    Common logic would dictate that my metabolism has slowed down. However, I was specifically told NOT to do refeeds, as they are supposed to be of no use until at a very low bodyfat level. I'm starting to question that logic, as I did another cutter back in the fall and lost fat better than I have now (but still not as well as I would have hoped), doing less cardio and only 1 HST session a day three times a week, AND a once a week refeed with insane high calories. Besides, I recall hearing of a study that demonstrated your leptin levels will be significantly elevated after a couple of days of refeeding. It contradicts what I have been told here, unless whoever told me that meant that refeeds aren't necessary until later in the diet once your metabolism starts slowing down, regardless of how much bodyfat you may have lost.
    Anyway, comments are welcome, especially regarding the necessity of refeeds. I'm in no mood for any wise @$$ remarks, though, so don't get in my face about how I should lower my calories down to 1500, and how much of a noob idiot I am. I'm doing everything by the book here, mostly following the guidelines I have read at this site, so if you want to claim I'm doing things wrong, you're shooting down the information they present here as the irrefutable and absolute truth. Again, you must excuse my aggression; I'm just so pissed off right now.
     
  2. Al and Hammer

    Al and Hammer New Member

    I don't know, but could it be the types of food you are eating? Like simple carbs when at rest etc as these are more useful during activity.

    I might be wrong but it may be helpful.
     
  3. precious_roy

    precious_roy New Member

    I see people use what I call "carb shaping" to lose weight. The idea is to concentrate on the timing of when you eat them. Intake more, low glycemic carbohydrates in the morning. Eat high glycemic carbohydrates ONLY around the time of a workout or run. And eat (basically) low or no carbohydrates later in the day and pre beadtime.
    I definatly do not agree that total calories are all that matters. It takes almost 10 times the caloric effort to store glucose and amino acids as fat than it does fatty acid, so type of calories is an issue. And if you are in a low insulin state, fat cells do not absorb as many calories, so timing is also an issue.

    ...I dont know. I've got nothing.
     
  4. LittleBigHorn

    LittleBigHorn New Member

    I'm pretty much stumped, too. I'm eating 5 meals a day with no carbs during the last two. I'm also only eating low GI carbs, and even then trying to time their intake in the morning and noon following my morning workout.
     
  5. precious_roy

    precious_roy New Member

    What kind of cardio do you do?
     
  6. Dood

    Dood New Member

    This may be helpful to you:

    http://www.avantlabs.com/magmain.php?issueID=3&pageID=51

    "Just as with hunger control, fat loss is remarkably rapid at the beginning of a diet, however, it invariably slows, and if appropriate steps are not taken, it stops. Low leptin levels are correlated with decreases in resting energy expenditure (37, 38, 39), and administration of leptin corrects this in animals with defects in leptin production, as well as preventing or reversing the decline seen with fasting (40).

    It has previously been common practice, when the manifestations of low leptin levels become apparant to the dieter, to cut calories even further, increase aerobics, start munching Cytomel, or all of the above. Unfortunately, this is just going to decrease leptin even more, making things that much worse.

    What you should be doing is the exact opposite. I do not like the term "cheat day" because it implies lack of will-power, so we will reserve them for the glutton. What should be employed is a purposeful, planned REFEED. These should actually be done BEFORE the signs of low leptin become manifest, but until you get a feel for that, it will suffice to use them after."

    Sounds to me like you might need a refeed.
     
  7. LittleBigHorn

    LittleBigHorn New Member

    Steady state, moderate intensity. However, I think my main avenue of fat loss has been the twice a day workout thing.

    And dood, that is exactly what I have been thinking. I don't care what I've been told here about refeeds being unnecessary until you reach a low enough bodyfat percentage; I have read plenty to suggest they ARE necessary when you notice a marked deceleration in the fat burn, regardless of your BF. I'm currently at around 13%, probably.
     

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