New cycle!

S

_Simon_

Active Member
heyhey guys! startin a new cycle, funfun!

I'm wondering, i really want SPECIFIC muscle groups to grow, them being bis, tris, and lats. so i have a few curiosities:

1. Are deadlifts the 'best' exercise for the back? as in, it really doesn't emphasise the lats much at ALL, only upper and lower back (not mid), which of course is awesome, i would like well, overall back growth i guess, so i'm throwing around a few ideas for a routine: (i'm not doing all of these, i'm just deciding OUT of these ones)

Back/Bis:
Deadlifts
BB Rows
Pullups
Chinups

Chest/Tris:
Incl Bench
Dips

Now, my MAIN priority is arms as they haven't really grown at all (much, honestly) ever since i started weight training 2-3 years ago. I'm not gonna train legs because they grow like crazy, which is why i'm considering not doing deadlifts haha. In your opinion, what option would yield the results i'm looking for?

either 1. Deadlift, Underhand BB Rows (are these better for bicep growth than weighted chins?), Incl Bench, Dips
2. Deadlift, Chins, Incl Bench, Dips
3. Overhand BB Rows, Chins, Incl Bench, Dips
4. Chins, Pullups, Incl Bench, Dips

other alternatives very welcome!

i'm also not too sure about how many sets, recently i've been doing Bench, Chins for roughly 20 reps total and Mil Press 15 reps total. If i did Bench and Dips in the same workout, would 20 reps per exercise be too much 'stimulation' for the tris? especially in the 5s? maybe 2 sets per exercise would be better, but then wouldn't i be conditioned to 20 reps for bench-related exercises?

also i will only be training twice a week.

am i asking too many questions? should i shut up and lift? should i?
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cheers!
 
Weighted chins sound good, lats and biceps.
For triceps closed grip bench presses are a good bet.
This way you don't switch to isos (which are not the best bang for the buck) but still emphasize the muscle groups you want.
 
I think you should simplify and do one pushing exercise which stimulates your tris, primarily, as well as chest and delts as synergists, such as CG bench or tricep dips
, doing 2 or 3 sets (depending on the # of reps)
and doing something like chins is perfect for lats and biceps. But do only one upper body pulling exercise. Maybe 2 if youre in the 10s or 15s. Simplify and win!
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cheers guys!

hmm, would it be a good idea to to cut down the amount of sets and add another exercise???

previously, i was doing roughly 20 reps each for each bench and chins, maybe i could do 10 reps incl. bench, 10 reps dips, 10 reps chins, 10 reps BB curls/BB Rows??? something like that?

i've just been liftin for awhile and my arms have not responded at all or to the absolute slightest degree, and i'm not gonna resort to steroids (or maybe i should lol).

then again, maybe i should just eat more hehe


ALSO! why do i keep hearing about deadlift working the entire body, well it works aLOT of the body's musculature (legs, back), people have even told me that their biceps have grown from doing deadlifts, that's not possible is it? it's not specific at all to the joint, then there are people who say it's because of hormonal changes (GH, test etc), but i thought that the slight hormonal changes that occur from such a heavy lift don't last long and don't affect hypertrophy.

thoughts???
 
Just do more volume for the target areas and drop volume back for everything else to minimal volume.
 
<div>
(_Simon_ @ May 21 2008,11:38)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">ALSO! why do i keep hearing about deadlift working the entire body, well it works aLOT of the body's musculature (legs, back), people have even told me that their biceps have grown from doing deadlifts, that's not possible is it? it's not specific at all to the joint, then there are people who say it's because of hormonal changes (GH, test etc), but i thought that the slight hormonal changes that occur from such a heavy lift don't last long and don't affect hypertrophy.

thoughts???</div>
Deadlifts do indeed strain your biceps. When deadlifting, your arms are working much harder than you might realise. Not only are your forearms working hard to maintain your grip but your bis and tris are contracting powerfully in order to stabilise your elbow and shoulder joints. Many biceps have been torn when attempting a max deadlift, usually in the arm with the supinated hand (when using a reverse grip).

In order to find out which muscles are being worked hard when deadlifting try this: after a week or so of SD, pick a load which is about 90% of your 15RM and do as many reps as you can. Don't do any other exercises. Wait for 24 hours and then make a note of which muscles are really sore and which ones just mildly so. You may be surprised at the result. I know I was.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Deadlifts do indeed strain your biceps. When deadlifting, your arms are working much harder than you might realise. Not only are your forearms working hard to maintain your grip but your bis and tris are contracting powerfully in order to stabilise your elbow and shoulder joints. Many biceps have been torn when attempting a max deadlift, usually in the arm with the supinated hand (when using a reverse grip).

In order to find out which muscles are being worked hard when deadlifting try this: after a week or so of SD, pick a load which is about 90% of your 15RM and do as many reps as you can. Don't do any other exercises. Wait for 24 hours and then make a note of which muscles are really sore and which ones just mildly so. You may be surprised at the result. I know I was. </div>

Yep, the first time I started deadlifting, I woke up the next morning, my entire back was sore, external rotators, traps, lats, rhomboids you name it. Even my hamstrings were sore (which surprised me since I didn't think the hams were involved in the deadlft- well according to exrx.net anyway), There was mild soreness in other muscles. But thats my experience anyway. Moral of the story? Deadlift.
 
Its not that I don't think Deadlifts dont strain or train your biceps I am sure they do.

But if you want bigger arms a must would be curls.

Like Tot said just drop the volume back on other muscle groups.
 
My opinion: To put inches on your arms you need to put pounds on the body (how many pounds have you put on in your last year of training?)- some say 20-30 lbs. to add 2 inches to your bi's , make BB rowing your body weight + a prioritized goal and approach rows and weighted pull ups with the enthusiasm most reserve for bench , eat , eat , and eat (hint- chinese buffets are your cheap all you can eat protien friend) and your biceps will grow. If curling makes you happy do them at the end of the workout , but never to the detriment of HEAVY rows and pullups/downs .:)
 
Thanx Russ, I was gonna mention that. There is also the possibility of doing TOO much for arms and shrinking them. You have to find your sweet spot on volume.
 
okay! so deadlifts are a must u reckon?

so far the suggestions have been, more volume for the targeted areas and less for other areas, do deadlifts, weighted chins, rows, curls, close-grip bench, and dips.

now i've gotta make the decision as to which exercises are going to be the most productive and effective (i couldn't do all them exercises right, it's a bit much).

keep deadlifts anyone reckon?
weighted chins and underhand rows? 15 total reps each (so i get 30 reps per exercise?)
Incline bench and dips? 10 reps for incline bench, 20 for dips?
not sure if i should add any isolation exercises hmm...

in my previous cycle, i did Bench press (3x10, 4x5), Weighted chins (3x10, 4x5), Military Press (2x10, 3x5). And i'm actually at a lower weight than when i started (which was NOT my goal haha). I plan to make an EXTRA effort to really eat by eating 3 meals plus a high-cal shake (a different plan to my 5/6-meal spread back in the day
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anyways, RUSS, well when i started bodybuilding about 2 years ago i was 57kg (125.4lbs), now i am between 71kg and 73kg (roughly 158lbs), so i've gained 15kg (33lbs) overall, through a mixture of shoddy everyday many sets training hehe to a proper progressive program. I think most of my gained weight comes from my chest, shoulders, and a bit of back (my legs were bigger, but i've stopped training them as they grow waaay too easily, even though that's a good thing ;) )

and i don't want to post a new topic in the diet and nutrition section, but what is the equation you guys use to find out how many calories to eat; AND the optimal ratio of macronutrients? the Eating For Size article equation isn't enough cals for me, how about 18-20x bodyweight in pounds, and 15-20% protein, 25-30% fats, 50-60% carbs??
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thanks alot for listening and responding guys, i really trust your opinions, really appreciate it ;)
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">okay! so deadlifts are a must u reckon?</div>

Absolutelty. You can alternate them with squats in an A/B workout fashion as most people do

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">weighted chins and underhand rows? 15 total reps each (so i get 30 reps per exercise?)
Incline bench and dips? 10 reps for incline bench, 20 for dips?
not sure if i should add any isolation exercises hmm...</div>

Sounds ok to me. But I just don't quite understand why would do 20 reps for dips and 10 for incline bench. Aren't you doing same # of reps for every exercise?

I don't think there is any harm any adding 2 sets of curls or extensions provided that it doesn't leave you feeling burned out. If it is your arms that are lagging you have to do iso's I guess.

As for your calories, I weigh about the same as you do, I have a sedentary lifestyle with exception to weight training and I found that eating roughly 3000-3300 cals adds about a kg every 2-3 weeks for me. The ratio yuo suggested is a good ratio. Work hard and you'll get there, whatever your goal is!
 
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(Totentanz @ May 21 2008,8:17)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Just do more volume for the target areas and drop volume back for everything else to minimal volume.</div>
Ditto to what Tot and Joe have said.  I went back and checked my results, and arm growth was greater where volume was higher...pretty much irregardless of exercise(s).  Be sure to get sufficient calories and rest too.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Absolutelty. You can alternate them with squats in an A/B workout fashion as most people do</div>

nah, i'm sorta doing deadlifts mainly for upper body development, not so much for legs, so i won't be switching with squats to get the legs goin (i mean i don't want a focus specifically on leg/glute/ham exercises, so i'm leaving squats out)

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Sounds ok to me. But I just don't quite understand why would do 20 reps for dips and 10 for incline bench. Aren't you doing same # of reps for every exercise?</div>

well if i understand correctly, dips are more specific to the triceps than say bench (as in they is more tension on the triceps), so thus i am thinking of increasing the volume on dips while sort of doing a maintenance on bench. this sounds okay yeah guys?

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I don't think there is any harm any adding 2 sets of curls or extensions provided that it doesn't leave you feeling burned out. If it is your arms that are lagging you have to do iso's I guess. </div>

yeah, i was thinking of adding an iso, but then i would be doing 15 reps for weighted chins, 15 reps for bb rows, and if deadlifts work the biceps as i have heard, i will be doing about 10- 15reps with that too. so i'm not sure if i should ADD any more volume into the mix for bi's..... ? ? ?
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SO! does this sound ok:
Deadlift 10-15 reps total (probably 10...)
Weighted chins 15 reps total
BB underhand rows 15 reps total
Incline Bench 10 reps total
Dips 20 reps total

now, to add or not to add isos......
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also it seems that my tris maybe aren't getting as much focus as bis here, and certain tri isos bother my elbows, but this should be fine, i haven't done dips in awhile, plus the added volume i'm doing, it should work! now to eat more than i've ever eaten befoooore... hehe

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Work hard and you'll get there, whatever your goal is! </div>

thanks heaps bro! yeah, i have come along way since starting, but some musclegroups are responding differently compared to others it seems......

thanks heaps guys, any more comments would be much appreciated
 
You can change the incline bench to a flat close grip bench for extra triceps work. When things get heavy you can do deadlifts every other workout.
I, for one, like iso work for the arms, so I would suggest you alternate skull crushers with incline db curls. Maybe since you are already doing chins and underhand rows the curls could be more focused on the brachialis like hammer curls or prone db curls to help overall arm size.
Use volume and load but watch out for overtraining.
 
As, electric said, by switching to close grip press you'll get a lot of work for your tri's and you can even keep the total rep number for press and dips the same. Therefore I think the isos for tris will be unnecessary. Weighted chins also heavily stress the bis too so the same applies for bi's. I know that I'm contradicting myself on what I said earlier but it just seems that with those exercises your arms will get plenty of work and IMO its better to do 6 good compounds than 8+ exercises and you must also bear in mind that it is possible to overwork the arms.

So to sum up, if you feel like it, do CG press and the other 5 exercises that you chose, eat like its your job and I want to hear how much bigger your arms are after 8 weeks. Mind you, your original plan will also work
but I'm just telling you what I would prefer.
 
ah ok hmmm, well the main reason i don't wanna switch incline bench with close grip is that i still want an exercise that emphasises chest (horizontal adduction), and whilst close grip bench and dips do 'hit' the pecs, i don't wanna risk losing the mass (i've always done horizontal adduction movements lol), so i might keep incline bench, which obviously still hit the triceps just not as great an extent as close grip.

hmmm, argh, what to do... unless i add close-grip in there and keep the others, seems a bit much however... i don't wanna wreck myself hehe

okay, i shall do deads, weighted chins, UH BB rows, incline bench, and dips. and of course the other exercise, the fork-in-mouth press ;)

and really appreciate the advice though!
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As for the incline vs. close- grip , close-grip inclines are not just a compromise but a killer movement in and of itself .
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hey, what about cleans? are they mainly a power movement or can they be used in a hypertrophy program? (because to me it looks like it uses power and momentum to get the bar up, not much total tension on the muscles, mainly a quick explosive bit...)
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