max-stim

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sp8cemunkie

New Member
Merry Christmas everybody! I'd like to try max-stim after 5s. After reading some in the forum I'm a little confused. I thought I read that you jump to 20 reps? Do you use your 5rm weight and use M-time till you hit 20 reps, or do you stop at 5 reps, rest 2-3 mins and start again? Also, should I limit exercises to compound only? Seems like squats could be tricky racking and unracking. I'm working out at home with no machines so I'm pretty limited anyway. Happy New Year!
 
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(sp8cemunkie @ Dec. 29 2007,14:54)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Seems like squats could be tricky racking and unracking.</div>
Squats work fine for Max-Stim. Just figure your racking and unracking into your M-time.

You might also want to do some deadlifts. They are MADE for Max-Stim!
 
how do you time your m-time? Do you use a stop watch? count in your head? or a big clock on the wall?....
 
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(jwbond @ Dec. 30 2007,14:10)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">how do you time your m-time? Do you use a stop watch? count in your head? or a big clock on the wall?....</div>
Yup, whatever works for you.

There is a big clock over my squat rack. So I use that for my M-time when I am doing squats or deads. When I am doing rows, I just count to myself.

M-time doesn't need to be precise. You just give yourself the necessary time such that your next rep will be as strong as the previous one.

The only caveat seems to be that your maximum M-time should be kept below 30 seconds (for reasons that only the labcoats can understand).
 
I don't focus on the time. I just take a breath or two or five, depending on how much recovery I need. Blood flow is critical to m-time. Doing bench for example, you want to rest your arms and don't stretch them too much in between reps as any tension will restrict blood-flow, and without blood-flow m-time is ineffective at allowing blood to carry away metabolic waste and replenish ATP and other metabolic functions.
I have noticed that m-time can be kept quite short if the target muscle is allowed to rest properly between reps, but if I accidently keep the muscle stretched or tense, then m-time takes alot longer to work.
 
Hey jwbond. I guess initially the results isn't so different if you use HST, the good thing of manipulating fatigue is that you can add more load later on using max-stim. I'm using max stim for about a month now, so I think I can tell you the results.

I don't have numbers, but I feel super strong and I'm bigger too. I am training upper body only because I had a cast on my feet and was unable to do anything with legs, this wouldn't stop me to train upper body.
I was progressing to super heavy dumbbell curls and arnold presses... so at that stage my joints couldn't take anymore and I dropped the curls and arnold presses and now I do barbell military press instead - my shoulder seem to grow and grow.
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(Krieger @ Jan. 02 2008,07:57)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">my shoulder seem to grow and grow.  
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I really hope you mean shoulders there Krieg, if not you will begin to look kinda silly or like Iegor from Young Frankenstein  
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Nice to hear the results though
 
Not being a native english speaker, sometimes I do this &quot;oopsie!&quot;.
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Anyway, from my experience max stim seems to fit better when it adapts to larger loads like the end of the cycle of HST... it just seems weird to do m-time with 12rm loads!
 
I think it depends upon where your maxes pan out. If you have a 1rm of say, 300lbs, and a 10rm of 200 (a typical bench scenario), then that's much different if the same lifter has a 10rm of only 175. Some of us spread out differently, so the beginning weights are calculated from 1rm, since that's the most consistent.
If you find that the MS is too easy, you should up the weight. The idea is to lift heavy enough to recruit MU's in every rep, not just go through the motions.
My problem is the opposite of yours: I needed more M-time than suggested, so I'll have to stay at a weight until I get the M-time down before moving up, or drop the weight a bit to start the cycle on some exersizes.
 
During the lighter weights, I do doubles or triples instead of singles, and rest in between those reps. I know it defeats some of the fatigue management, but I still avoid a lot of the fatigue.
 
Quad and tot,

You two both have used hst for some time now...which showed you better results max stim or hst?

also, what type of routine are you currently using?
 
I read the Max-Stimulation document...

Whew am I glad he watered it down a bit towards the end.

I've been doing HST three years and I'm very satisfied with results.

So... just how does Max-stimulation have anything to do with HST?

Seriously, I don't see a strong connection. I'd say other training programs have just about as much connection to HST as MS.

I can see where you could get more reps out of a weight by allowing for a compete relax time between each rep. I don't however see an advantage, i.e., I do two sets x 10 reps now and I strive for the full 10 reps on the first set, but to be honest I care less if I don't hit the the full ten reps in the second set. In such cases I usually hit about 8 to 9 reps if I can't get the full ten reps in the 2nd set.

My understanding is the purpose of HST weight loading is to micro-traumatize the muscle. Now I can MT the muscle pretty darn well just doing my HST. So what if I don't hit all the reps per set? If I was an accountant I might be more interested in the pennies (precise rep sets).

As it is I bust my butt with 10-12 exercises with max rest between sets of 1 minute and max rest between exercise changes of 3 minutes. I eat like a horse, and take my Protein, Glutamine and Creatine supplements.

I learned soon enough that diet and nutrition are critical to weight training. If you don't eat enough of the right stuff it doesn't matter what your workout consists of... as far as making gains.

I guess for guys like me it's going to take a darned good program to change my mind about how I train. It's real hard to knock success I've had on HST.

I should qualify. My goals are not to be a contestant, but to get decent gains, be extremely fit, and continually stronger.

If you read this and disagree that's fine, and if you want to make some points that's fine as well. I don't think Bryan Haycock has a corner on all the good ideas. I still believe it's hard to knock good success.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Quad and tot,
You two both have used hst for some time now...which showed you better results max stim or hst?</div>
I've merely used MS as a strength booster and for now, a way to use a machine working out at work, since it doesn't have enough weight on it's stacks to hit me.

Also, since some use MS with short M-times, lengthening M-times, and clustered reps, I'd think that the distinction should be made when comparing it to HST. I've done all 3, and there IS a difference. I plan to do a cycle of it someday, after learning more about it.
 
Max-Stim follows all of the HST principles. The mesocycle system is changed to the Max-Stim one rep rerack style for better fatigue management. Better fatigue management should lead to higher loads, improved strength, and increased hypertrophy. I am starting my first MS cycle next week, so that's about all I can gather at the time.
 
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(colby2152 @ Jan. 21 2008,18:09)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Max-Stim follows all of the HST principles.  The mesocycle system is changed to the Max-Stim one rep rerack style for better fatigue management.  Better fatigue management should lead to higher loads, improved strength, and increased hypertrophy.  I am starting my first MS cycle next week, so that's about all I can gather at the time.</div>
Well put.
 
Increased hypertrophy? Over what, HST? Show me where this is proven, even on the MS website. I just didn't see that question answered to my satisfaction yet.
 
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(quadancer @ Jan. 21 2008,19:51)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Increased hypertrophy? Over what, HST? Show me where this is proven, even on the MS website. I just didn't see that question answered to my satisfaction yet.</div>

I second that and point of fact---> I'm not going off chasing after some new weight training guru or noru.

HST methods have worked great for me, and I've only had one minor injury in three years.  That injury wasn't HST.  I let my wrist drop in forward raises and pulled one of those small muscles in my lower arm.

I hang around a few other bodybuilding boards and I've read every kind of nonsense training imaginable.  I see the results at my gym of guys that are always changing to some new training method.( Zip-nada) They look just about the same they did 2+ years ago. Sad commentary, but it is critical to have a training program that works and grows with you.

I've told plenty of guys about HST, for the most part they all want to know what I'm doing.  The Ego probably the biggest deterent to getting what you want out of training.

I ain't no evangelist for HST.  I do my thing and go home, but I am always glad to share if asked.  

Free advice is worthless, paid for advice is rarely heeded. LOL

I laughingly told a guy at the gym the other day that even the cows in the Chick-Fil-A ads are giving good bodybuilding advice for free. Each more chikin'
 
I don't have an answer to the question of HST vs MS for hypertrophy. But I do know that Max-Stim has a sister method in Germany called PITT-Force. The wife of the PITT-Force founder became an IFBB pro in two years of weight training using PF all the way. The use of anabolics is of course up for speculation. I spent time thinking about it. In the words of Julius Caesar, people believe as they are inclined.

Tonight I tried MS for the first time. I ran into a lot of situations where racking and unracking the weight added to fatigue and eventually became unmanageable. This is simply the result of using equipment designed for typical concentric focused, multiple rep type training and is by no means attributable to Max-Stim. I have run into this problem before when using other unconventional systems. I will have to think through my exercise and equipment selection.

MS does have the HST principles in it. There are common truths underlying all effective systems. You and I cannot escape the mandates of human biology. Neither can exercise advice.

What is important to understand about Max-Stim is its premise that muscular fatigue does not cause big muscles. Tension, not fatigue (or &quot;burn&quot; or &quot;pump&quot;), causes big muscles. This is why in Max-Stim you put the weight down after every rep. Doing so gives the muscle time to recover. As a result you can do more reps. More reps equals more tension. More tension equals more muscle growth. This is the essential theory behind Max-Stim and is what separates it from all other weight training systems, HST included. Whether or not this theory is correct and, if correct, can be manipulated to produce better gains is something I think we are all trying to figure out right now, Dan included.

Give it a try. That's how you learn.
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