Help Needed with Training Method

I

imported_delphi23

Guest
I have been lifting for about 6 years. However, I have not followed any specific method and after reading many of the posts on this forum, I realize I had no clue as to what I was doing. I am about 50 lbs overweight and want a program where I can burn as much fat as quickly as possible. I really want to start HST but am uncertain what type of program would be best. While I am overweight, I am not completely out of shape.

I was thinking of a 2x split (upper M,W,F lower Tu,Thr,Sat) 6 days a week with cardio done after every workout. I can only get to the gym once per day so morning cardio is out. I think I read somewhere on this site that working out every day is better for fat burning, am I right?

Is steady state cardio more advisable? ie 20-40 minutes of, say, excercise bike at one speed. Or is it better to do some version of HIIT? Or is it better to alternate between the two?

For my diet, I am eating a diet similar to the Zone (40-30-30); with 5 to 6 meals per day at between 300 - 500 calories below maintenance. Does calorie cycling work? ie eating, say, 5 days below maintenance and then two days 300-500 above (healthy food)?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I realize that great gains can only come as a result of discipline and effort and I am eager to essentially change my lifestyle. But by reading the information on this site I have been bombarded with a ton of information that has left me sort of like a deer in the headlights; paralysis through analysis. I would really like something basic but effective and simple enough for a beginer to grasp.

Thanks
 
If you are going to work out six times per week, you may want to keep your calories a little closer to maintenance, say around 250. That's just what I would do, maybe you have a harder time burning fat, I don't know.
edit: I mean 250 under maintenance, not 250 total per day. Sorry for the bad wording.

For cardio, steady state or HIIT, whichever works better or is easier for you to do while on a calorie deficit is what I would recommend. I believe that both work, so it is a matter of personal preference. I have read some stuff suggesting that steady state may be better in the long run, but I don't know for sure.

What kind of routine are you considering? If I were you, I would stick to compounds. A good routine would be something like weighted dips, a shoulder press of some sort (I prefer military press), squats and BB bentover rows for starters. Dips may be difficult if you are overweight. If you can't do dips, you could do incline bench instead. Squats would be a good idea, even if you don't like them.
You aren't going to gaining much muscle while on a cutter, unless you are really lucky, so you don't need a lot of isolations, in my opinion.
Are you sure you want to do a upper lower split? With low enough volume, I think you could do full body daily instead of a upper lower split. Maybe doing 5 times a week would be better than 6, taking weekends off could be better so you don't get worn out while on a calorie deficit.
It's up to you though. How much do you think you can do?
Sorry if that was all a bit scattered - I've been up far too long.
 
Totentanz:

Thanks for the reply. Its funny, I've just read about 50 or so threads and I have sort of come to see who are the knowledgeable people on the forum. So I was glad to see your name respond.

Actually, I just today read about full body routines 5 or 6 times per week. The base HST materials made it seem that this would be too much. But I think I could handle a full body workout 5 times per week. But I don't know what one would look like. I really only have grasped either the 3x per week or the 6x 2-way split. I don't know what kind of volume these workouts have. Could you provide a sample so I could see what it looks like and how they progress from 15 to 10 to 5?

I take it that you reccommend the 250 calorie deficit because of the high demands of training 6 times per week. Is that right? I was thinking 300-500 to lose more fat at a quicker pace. But if that's not wise please let me know.

Lastly, I know that only the geneticly gifted can gain muscle while losing fat. I'm really not too worried about gaining muscle right now. I'm 5'11" at 240 lbs with a medium frame. I have muscle on me allthough you cant see it because of the fat. So I'm guessing if I shed the pounds while lifting weight and maintaining muscle tone, I should have some decent size. But I have a long way to go before I'll know.
 
With regard to the calorie intake - that is correct. Training five times a week can dramatically increase your caloric needs, which is a good thing if you are wanting to cut. If you really want to try going 500 under, here is what I would do. I would eat at maintenance for the two weeks of 15s, then cut it down to 500 under maintenance once you hit the 10s.

For five times a week, full body, you want to use lower volume so it is easier to handle, as you have probably figured out already. So keeping that in mind, I would do one set for each exercise throughout the cycle. I would also try to limit your routine to 4 - 6 different exercises, since you are going to be doing cardio also.
Keep each rep range as two week blocks - so you will have 10 workouts for each rep range. Since you have more workouts per rep range, you should only increment every other workout. Otherwise it is too hard to figure out your increments. So for instance, if you are doing incline bench and your 15 RM is 100, your increments would look something like: 60 60 70 70 80 80 90 90 100 100.

Also, don't forgot that once you reach the fives, you'll want to get some metabolic work in. Once you finish your routine, I would do a couple exercises for 15 reps, using a fairly light weight, like 70% of your 15 RM or so.

What exercises do you feel comfortable with? Are you working out at the gym with a partner? Also, how are you tracking your diet? If you haven't heard of fitday.com yet, I would recommend taking a look. It's pretty good once you enter in all the foods you eat. Have you figured out what you are going to do for your diet yet?
 
Thanks for the great info. The exercises I like most are:

Incline Bench
Lat Pulldowns
Military Press
Bent Over Rows
Squats and Leg Press
Standing calf raises
Shrugs
Machind pullovers for Lats (love this one)
Tricep press
Pec Dec
Leg Curl

I am not a lover of dips and chins largely because I can barely do any. Also, deadlifts make me nautious and I kill my shins.

I train at a well equipped health club. They have Cybex, Hammer, Life Fitness, etc.; its a good gym.

I have heard of fitday and I think I may need it. Is there a cost to join?

For my diet I am figuring eating 300-500 calories below maintenance. If I go by the 10-12 cal per pound of body weight formula which I have seen recommended in various threads; at 240 lbs that would be 2400 - 2880 for maintenance. So for a hypo-caloric diet I would be between roughly 2100-2500. I'll probably try hitting closer to the 2000 cal mark. As for macronutrient ratios, what do you suggest? I am not a lover of low carb diets. I get "brain fog" and very tired. I was thinking something like 40-30-30 ala the Zone.

I have searched under metabolic training and found some threads. They all seem pretty complicated but they indicate that some of these techniques should be use as early as the 10s; ie "load stretching". You mentioned doing 15s after the 5s workouts. Does that mean doing one set of each exercise to failure using roughly 70% of the 15rm?

Thanks again for your interest and the information you've given me.
 
From your list:

Incline Bench
Lat Pulldowns
Military Press
Bent Over Rows
Squats
Leg Press

That would be a pretty solid routine for cutting. Don't worry about dips and chins yet - those will get easier once you've cut some more weight. I wouldn't do much more than just the above exercises though, especially during the 15s. Later on in the 10s and 5s, if you feel like it, you could add in some others as well, but I don't think you really have to.
When working out 5 times a week, I feel that it is a good idea to keep workouts short - around 30 minutes approximately, depending on how long you rest between sets. It's easier to fit into your schedule each day that way and it's easy to stay motivated.

Fitday is free to use, though some people find it complicated at first. Go to http://www.fitday.com if you want to check it out. It really does make counting calories and tracking your macronutrients a lot easier, once you enter everything in.

Your ideas for diet sound good. That should work. I agree about the carbs. In my experience, cutting carbs results in loss of energy and strength, which I feel won't help you very much.
For macronutrients, 40-30-30 will work just fine. Personally, I prefer a bit more protein than that, at least 1 gram per pound of bodyweight, but with your plan, you'll be getting about 150 grams of protein which should be enough.

As for all that metabolic stuff - don't worry about loaded stretches, pulse sets, etc. All you need to do is make sure is that once you reach the 5s, you do a couple sets of 15 reps with a relatively light weight. You should not go to failure - you just want to feel a nice burn.
If you use the exercises you listed, then for metabolic work, I personally would do a set of incline bench, squats and military press, using 70% of my 15 RM, for 15 reps. So if my 15 RM is 100, during the 5s, I use 70 lbs and pound out 15 reps after I've finished my workout.
I also get some massive pumps in my muscles doing 15 reps after I've done all my 5s.


Any idea when you are going to start doing this? I'd like to see what your results are. My older sister was about 250 lbs three weeks ago, and she started a similar routine - 5 times a week, cardio in the PM, tracking her diet in fitday and she's lost 10 lbs so far. But even in just three weeks, she's already starting to look quite a bit better.
Anyway, good luck.
 
Totentanz:

I can't tell you how much I appreciate your help. Starting with the lack of knowledge that I had or actually a compendium of misinformation that I picked up at various gyms and muscle mags I felt totally overwhelmed when I first was exposed to HST. Now I am finally starting to see the general outline.

I plan on taking my 15, 10, and 5 rms over the next 5 days, SDing next week and starting on monday the 4th. Perhaps I should take measurements before I start. I could post my progress every few weeks or so. I definitely intend to keep up with the posts at this forum. It is an awesome place for information. Its funny, I used to think that HIT was incontestable. Now I see that it didn't have a leg to stand on.
 
Yeah, definitely take some measurements before hand. That's probably the best indicator of your progress, rather than your weight.

If you need help figuring out your increments once you find your RMs, you know where to go.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top