fibers

winterfresh22

New Member
ive been told that there are certain amounts of muscle fibers in each muscle( consisting of fast and slow twitch). The higher the rep(20), the more endurance ull have(for runners) and the less (2-5) the more strength youll have. With this said would doing reps of 20, 12-14, 10, 2-5 for each exercise( or muscle) be wise? The way it was said to me was that no matter how many fast or slow twitch fibers there are, you are working each one.
for example: incline bench press
1st set: rep 20
2nd: 12-14
3rd: 10
4: 2-5

ofcourse every person is different but as a general workout would this be good? thank you for the replies, i take each one very seriously
 
Don't understand what you're trying to accomplish with that though. How many fibers you will recruit is directly related to the load the muscle sees. You have three muscle fiber types, slow twitch (ST), and fast twitch A and B (FT-A and FT-B). They're also referred to respectively as types I, IIA and IIB. FT-A are sort of between ST and FT-B muscle fibers in their characteristics. ST are used for more aerobic activity, FT-A and B are used for more explosive anaerobic activity. FT-B are the largest fibers.

Generally your body will recruit STs first, and then if the activity demands FT-A and FT-B as needed. If I remember right during eccentrics your body may actually reverse this order of recruitment, which is probably why the eccentric phase of the lift is so effective at causing hypertrophy. The FT fibers are the ones that really hypertrophy, so it's important to use a load that causes your CNS to recruit them if that's your goal.

Also your body doesn't recruit all fibers all the time. Say you're lifting a load that's 10% of what your body would recruit all fibers for in whatever muscle your using. It's not going to have all the fibers work at 10%, it's going to take 10% of the fibers and make them work at 100%. The numbers are wrong here actually, but they get the idea across.

If you want to train for running, run. And do exercises that concentrate on endurance like German Volume Training. Generally your body will adapt as needed to whatever environment it's repeatedly exposed to. Starting light and pyramiding really doesn't do much, because at the heavier end of things your still engaging as many fibers as possible anyway. The ST fibers you hit with the high rep training are getting hit again during the heavier work. Might as well just hit them once or twice and hit them effectively with the heavier weights and at the same time hit the FT A and B fibers.

Your exercise routine is really determined by your goals. What are you trying to get at with this workout? Just a good all around workout, or are you training for something specific?
 
i am training for an over-all good work-out, but i am also looking for a work-out that wil enhance my over-all athletic ability. A program that will get me strong and give me bulk is what i have been searching for. I have no intention of entering a weight lifting competition or flexing my arms infront of a camera. An example of what i am searching for might be terrell owens( i figure most people watch the superbowl and this will be a valid example)I have been lifting for about 3 years, and consecutively for about 14 weeks. I was doing 2 sets of 10 reps for about 3 exercises per muscle. I then started doing 15 reps the first week, 10 reps the 1st set then 5 the second set, and the 3rd week doing 3 set of 5. I then was told that certain range of reps will give me brute strength but not necasarily much to look at in the mirror, and certain range will give me bulk, but not a lot of strength. can u clear this up for me?

FY1- i work out upper body 3 days a week and legs/core 3 days.
 
Training for strength and hypertrophy are different is all it comes down to. For a good all around workout a full body routine every other day is really all you need. No need for many exercises per muscle group. Three sets, one being a warmup and two work sets is a good way to go. Athletic ability is something you don't necessarily get from lifting weights. Being stronger helps. Depending on what type of athletics you're going for you might incorporate plyometric training, sprints, etc.

The reps aren't important really, it's the weight and time under tension, and overall volume of work which reps help you determine. Pushing a low weight for high reps will help you develop endurance. Pushing a high weight for low reps will do the same, but also for a time it will cause hypertrophy of the FT muscle fibers until the repeat bout effect kicks in and your muscles adapt. Generally, unless endurance is what you're going for you should avoid the high rep light weight stuff unless it's what comes at the begining of an HST cycle, where it serves another purpose.

Without more specifics I'd say go with a standard hybrid routine. I don't much believe in splits but if it works for you that's cool. Otherwise I'd go with a standard three day a week full body routine and increase the weight when you can. Take a visit to the SST part of this forum and you get a lot of info on Standard Strength Training. If you want to gain mass more efficiently though you should lean towards an HST program geared towards that. And as for athletics, look into the training methods of the people who you most want to emulate, research them a bit and see what works for you. For a lot of sports short sprints and plyometrics work great for conditioning.

Question: Where are you now in relation to your goal physique? Do you need more muscle, or do you have it and just want to lose fat so it's moe noticable? Are coordination and participation in a specific sport part of your goals?
 
Shucks, repeated post.
blush.gif
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]An example of what i am searching for might be terrell owens( i figure most people watch the superbowl and this will be a valid example)

Not an Eagles fan, but TO is my favorite football player since he danced all over the Cowboy star.
thumbs-up.gif


The rep-range stuff isn't useful for your needs. If you're looking into increasing endurance, look into something like Charles Staley's EDT training.

If you want to adapt a HST routine, just add a lot of metabolic-stress work. A lot. Even if you end up training only twice a week or hitting failure, you'll increase your endurance significantly within two cycles.

cheers,
Jules
 
Core Performance is a good prescription for what you're looking for. It has nice colorful images and a few exercises and combinations that have added spice to my HST. Every modality within the program is aimed at the athlete in all of us with the focus on speed/balance/injury prevention.

What brings you to this website?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (xahrx @ Feb. 15 2005,1:32)]Where are you now in relation to your goal physique? Do you need more muscle, or do you have it and just want to lose fat so it's moe noticable? Are coordination and participation in a specific sport part of your goals?
I am getting results for my hardwork, but i would like to put on a a lot more muscle/strength while keeping my body fat % low. I would say im about 1/4 of the way that i would like to be. I am a somewhat thin guy( you cant see my ribs but i have low body fat) so losing fat isn't my main objective. gaining coordination/power/balance r important for me too. I have been supplementing with whey protein shakes after my lifting sessions as well.
what brings me to this site? well i was reading an article on weight lifting and it mentioned hypertrophy. I typed it in google and this site was on top of the list. I read some threads before joining, and decided that this would be a perfect place to ask some questions
 
I'd suggest splitting up your goals then. The coordination and athletic ability can be addressed. If you want to put on more muscle, do it now with an HST routine and a diet with excess calories, heavy on protein. You're going to gain some fat, it's unavoidable. However, starting now will leave you some time to cut before summer hits. On off days from HST you can do what's called Active Rest. Basically it's light to moderate aerobic work, and you can use this time to concentrate on the athletic goals you have. Sprints, jogging, footwork exercises like jumping rope, heavy bag and speed bag work are all cool ways to improve athletic ability. I'd say the best way though is to just start playing whatever sport it is you want to a couple times a week.
 
How do you rate your physical goals (1 most important - 10 least)
Hypertrophy
Strength
Power
Speed and acceleration
Coordination and balance

I took you more for the performance to be the number one goal with a phyisque that followed. In rereading our earlier posts, I wish to forward you to a few articles written by Lyle McDonald for Mind & Muscle Magazine (if you haven't read them already). In "Periodization for Bodybuilders" (3 parts) he goes into the specifics on the conjugated form of periodization. Also check out his website, he maintained a training log on some lesbians he trained for powerlifting concurrent with a bodybuilding show. Definitely an interesting read.
 
Hypertrophy-8
Strength-8
Power-6
Speed and acceleration-6
Coordination and balance-6





It just seems to me that i have heard so many different things about weight training. I have heard to do about 3-2 exercises per muscle group. I then heard that doing a few compound exercises will do the trick as well. Also, i have heard that doing one exercise is all that is needed, and to alternate exercises every session.
I problem i have found is that with sports there is just so many things that are needed to play a sport. For example, you would need a heavy lifting schedule while still doing footwork, agility, coordination, speed and skill work. To do all this seems almost impossible.
The reason i splitmy routines is because each day i usually lift for about an hour, and want to stay away from 2 hr lifting sessions. I usually do 3 secs on the eccentric part and then explode back up. Would jumping rope/ sprints be ok on my upperbody days?


Thanks for trying to clear things up for me
 
an FYI i forgot-
i turned 15 this january... and incase it matters i am about 5'7 and 130 lbs( put on 10 lbs of which appears as muscle since i started lifting)
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (winterfresh22 @ Feb. 16 2005,4:35)]an FYI i forgot-
i turned 15 this january... and incase it matters i am about 5'7 and 130 lbs( put on 10 lbs of which appears as muscle since i started lifting)
Wait until you get old, brother. You ain't gonna be able to eat anything and pack on muscle anymore. What I wouldn't give to be half my age right now, and I ain't even that old.

You have an advantage: you're young. You could probably eat doritos all day and pack on muscle with a half decent workout. A couple things:

You don't need to switch exercise. It has two advantages that aren't supercritical. It stops you from getting bored with a workout, and a different exercise can engage different synergists and stabilizers which could have benefits. For growth and strength you just have to remember that no matter what lift you do, your muscle fibers can only contract one way. No need to 'fool' your muscles or any of that nonsense.

Sprinting on off days for the lower body is fine. Jumping rope is great for timing and aerobic work.

A few compound exercises is in fact all you need. They're the best. They mobilize the most muscle mass per movement and are more efficient. It's interesting but I'm thinking Max OT might be a good workout style for you. It's basically a split like you're doing now, doing one or two muscle groups once a week each over the course of two or three days a week. Say a Push day, Pull day, and then a lower body day. Workout for about 40 minutes max. Do 6-8 sets I believe it is, and you use you 4-6 rep max on all of them. Rest for about 2-3 minutes between each set.

At your age you're gonna grow from lifting a taco, so this might be a good approach for your needs.
 
could i have a sample work-out in detail of what my routine should look like?
I hear so many different things it just makes weightlifting more complicated than it really is. when on the bench press, would exlpoding when pushing and then slowering for 3 secs work on explosiveness? how much of a diff does tempo really make on a work-out?
when u say that i can gain very easily, but through weightliftingi experience I would disagree. I would think i would need to train the same muscles 2 times a weeek(although now i do 3)

on a recap-
so doing the hst routine isnt necasary( which ive read was 15 reps monday, 2 sets 10 wed, and 3 sets 5 fri) changing the weights every 2 weeks?

THANKS
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (winterfresh22 @ Feb. 17 2005,6:28)]so doing the hst routine isnt necasary( which ive read was 15 reps monday, 2 sets 10 wed, and 3 sets 5 fri) changing the weights every 2 weeks?
THANKS
That's actually not quite correct. The idea behind HST is this (I probably won't explain this that well, but I'll try...):

For the first two weeks, you will do 15 reps of each exercise. Then on the third and fourth weeks, you do 10 reps. For the fifth and six, you will do 5 reps per exercise, then you do negatives or dropsets for the seventh and eight weeks.

You will increase weight every workout. For the 15s, you will work up to using your 15 rep max, so say for the bench press, the most weight you can use and still complete 15 reps is 150 lbs. You will start around 120 lbs for your bench on day one, then use 125 lbs on day two, 130 on day 3, etc. The idea is to gradually work up to your 15 rep max during your 15s. Then on your 10s, it's the same principle, start at a weight that is less than your 10 RM and gradually work up to your 10 rep max. You should be using more weight each workout.

I know it's a little difficult to wrap your mind around at first. It took me two or three days of reading everything I could find on this site before I really understood it.

Anyway, try reading these two threads, they should help you understand it better than my poorly worded post did:

HST for dummies

Summary of HST principles

Good luck.
 
This is a sample HST routine for Bench press spanning 10 weeks:

First two weeks: Strategic Deconditioning, no weight lifting in other words.

Second two weeks, the 15s:
Monday: 125
Wednesday: 130
Friday: 135
Monday: 140
Wednesday: 145
Friday: 150

Third two weeks, the 10s:
Monday: 140
Wednesday: 150
Friday: 160
Monday: 170
Wednesday: 180
Friday:190

Fourth two weeks, the 5s:
Monday: 180
Wednesday: 190
Friday: 200
Monday: 210
Wednesday: 220
Friday: 230

Fifth two weeks, negatives or continue with 5rm:

Basically you increase the weight for every exercise every workout. Aside from a little zigzagging of the weight that happens when you move from one two week microcycle to the next, the weight you use for every exercise should always be increasing by at least 5%.

Now that's a sample of how an HST workout for one exercise would look. A Max OT style workout, the standard one, would have you working out five times a week in this manner:

Monday: Legs
Tuesday: Arms and Abs
Wednesday: Shoulders and Traps
Thursday: Back
Friday: Chest

For each group you take one or two compound exercises to hit each muscle involved, and do 6-9 sets of 4-6 rep max work. So the leg day may be Squats, Straight Leg Dead Lifts and Calf Raises, all done with a very heavy weight that you can barely get up 4-6 times, all done for 6-9 sets.

Like any other exercise program, once you learn Max OT you can start modifying it to suit you better.
 
would you recommend the the HST program or the Max OT for my goals.


Here is a chart from bodybuilding.com from an articile that goes into detail about muscle fibers.

Repetition Range Type I Type IIA Type IIA Strength Gains
1-2 repetitions Very Low Low Low Excellent
3-5 repetitions Very Low Low Decent to Good Excellent
6-8 repetitions Very Low Good Excellent Good
9-12 repetitions Low Excellent Very Good Good Within Rep R.
13-15 repetitions Decent Very Good Decent to Good Endurance
16-25 repetitions Very Good Diminishing Low Endurance
25-50 repetitions Excellent Low Very Low Endurance



im in the strategic deconditiong part right now so im ready almost ready to start.
 
If you're deconditioning right now, either way you go you're going to want to start with a week or two of work at fifteen or so reps until you get back into the swing of things. Going straight into Max OT would probably lead to a quick injury. I'd say go for Max OT. You have to have your 15,10 and 5 rep maxes figured out before you decondition for HST, so I'd say go for Max OT for about 8 weeks. Figure out your maxes at the end, decondition, then go for HST and see how each works for you.
 
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