Calorie change question through cycle

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deli_conker

New Member
I spent March through May cutting. Now I am getting ready to do a HST cycle. My question deals with the amount of calories I should consume while going through the cycle. I know, I know; eat, eat, eat. But the last time I did that while doing HST, I got a decent amount of muscle and a lot of extra fat.

While cutting, I put myself into the habit of eating clean, weighing everything, and counting every calorie. I have no problems continuing this and I think it's a good habit for me. But I do have a few questions about bulking.

I am getting a bodygem BMR done at the end of my current SD (yes, I did a cycle while cutting and it actually helped the process a lot). I should be able to deduce my maintenance calories from my BMR. What I am wondering is how much should I overeat throughout the cycle? Just about everybody has their best gains after the 10's. Should I eat around maintenance during the 15's and slowly add calories as the cycle progresses? For instance start at maint and add 150 calories per day per week (week 1= maint+150, week 4=maint+600).

And how about off days? Should I be eating the same amount of calories or should I back it off a bit and only eat big on workout days?

And there's the whole question of SD. Bulking is fine, but I like being lean. I'm planning on getting my BMR done again at the end of my cycle. Is there any problems with using SD as a short cutting phase?

It took a lot of effort to lose the excess these past few months. I want to increase my muscle mass, and I know some fat will come with it. I just want to minimize this as much as possible.
 
If you are getting your BMR tested, then I will assume that statistic is for your body at a sedentary state. You'll still need to multiply it by a coefficient according to your activities to get to your maintenance level.

BMR Multiplier
Sedentary = 1.2
Lightly Active = 1.375
Moderately Active = 1.55
Very Active = 1.725
Extremely Active = 1.9

Those figures are based on the Katch-McArdle equation.

It is probably safe to add 150 calories per week, but IMO it really doesn't matter. I have huge day to day calorie swings, and I tally up the averages at the end of the week. I would dive right into the bulk and eat 500 above maintenance EVERY day including the off days.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">And there's the whole question of SD. Bulking is fine, but I like being lean. I'm planning on getting my BMR done again at the end of my cycle. Is there any problems with using SD as a short cutting phase?</div>

There is a problem with that since you are putting your gains in severe jeopardy. Eat at maintenance during SD.
 
colby has some good info in his post.
if your cut was successful you should have a decent idea of what your maint cal level is already (many have a range say bw x 13-15).
if you plan to gain i would start at +500 at least when you begin your cycle(15s) and evaluate your progress from there. 150+ cals is small considering all the variables that change each day and sometimes it takes the body a week or 2 to change gears from cut, maint, gain.

conventional wisdom says 1b a week gain is good for a bulk and that includes a % of it being fat. as long as your not completely new to lifting 1lb a week is solid growth and is a good target to shoot for. if limiting fat gain is a greater priority than muscle gain then maybe try for 1/2lb a week. just know that over 1lb a week wgt gain usually means a higher % is fat (unless on drugs or genetic minority).

good luck
 
Colby &amp; Bluejacket have some good points &amp; should be considered!!!
Personally, I would eat BIG during the part of the cycle that you usually make the most gains. For me it was the 5's. Next cycle I plan to eat about 500 cals above maint, starting with the 15's, but eat BIG when I get to the end of the 10's in prep for the 5's. This way I am filling any possible need when I need it the MOST, &amp; since it is only for a short period, it will limit any fat gains. Going above some is better than not enough. It easier to back off some if you gain too much to quickly, but not enough will definetly hinder the results of your hard work.

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Remember that your maintenance will go up as you gain weight, so you'll need to adjust your calories upward to take this into account, or you may suffer from diminishing gains as your cycle progresses.
 
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(Joe.Muscle @ Jun. 08 2006,21:42)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">just out of curiousity what is everyone eating...besides the obvious...turkey steak chicken tuna?</div>
for me its a steady diet of....
oatmeal, eggs, yogurt, vegis, fruit, lots of chicken, grnd turkey and tuna.
smaller amounts of fish, steak, pork chops, milk, cheese, bacon, bread, shakes, cereal etc.

i like things regimented so i eat alot of the same stuff each day and i just try to stick to it 80-90% of the time. the other 10-20% i dont plan it just happens (dinner/breakfast out, popcorn at the movies, desserts, whatever) and i know im covered cals and healthwise because im so regimented.
 
just sitting about or sleeping you need 12cals per lb bodyweight.
it takes 3500cals over maintanence to gain 1lb of fat,or 3500 cals under to lose a 1lb of fat.
so if you ate 500 over for a week you would gain 1lb of fat.
if you ate 500 under you would lose 1lb of fat.
that is if you dont exercise if you train you have to work out how many cals you use during your workouts plus other daily activitys and add that onto your cals for the day .
so if you weigh ie 100lbs thats 1200cals
your activitys use another 1200cals
thats a total of 2400 cals anything over that or under you will gain or lose fat
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(Tom Treutlein @ Jun. 09 2006,02:00)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">How do you get your BMR tested?

Links? Info?</div>
I get mine tested at Bally's. You don't have to be a member, but it does cost aroun $60-$70. They use a machine called the Bodygem. You basically wear a nose plug and scuba mouth peice and breath through it for about 10 minutes. It measures the oxygen going in versus the oxygen going out. This tells how much is utilised by your metabolism and thus how many calories you need.

I did mine recently and my maintenance calories comes out to around 2300. I weigh 165. It's worth it to me to pay the money because I like having solid numbers to work with. Calculations are okay if you need a ballpark number (ie. 13-15 times bodyweight), but I prefer to know exactly what I am dealing with. It gives me more control over the outcome.

The plan at this point is to eat about 250 calories above maint until the cycle begins (just a few days). Then I'll push to 500 above and watch my weight. I'll adjust it from there. When I get a few days from the fives, I'll have a pretty good idea of how many calories I should add/subtract from my diet.

If I seem a little paranoid about gaining too much, just remember it takes less effort to gain fat than it does to lose it; I'm just thinking of the future.
 
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(Joe.Muscle @ Jun. 08 2006,21:42)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">just out of curiousity what is everyone eating...besides the obvious...turkey steak chicken tuna?</div>
I eat a lot of steak, actually just a lot of beef in general. I also eat a lot of cheese and drink loads of milk. i could easily take in a gallon of milk a day.
I don't eat much chicken lately because I'm getting real sick of it. Sometimes I'll eat oatmeal for breakfast with either splenda or no sweetener, if I want to feel like an OCD bodybuilder that day. But otherwise, I prefer to eat bagels or huge omelets. The omelets are filled with cheese and then either tuna, beans or a ton of vegetables and mushrooms, then the whole thing is cooked in a pan full of olive oil. That's a great breakfast.

Other than that, I eat a LOT of pasta. Tons. Spaghetti is my favorite, but I like it all. I probably eat a pasta dish of some sort almost every day.
 
Just adding a thought here that one should consider.

After dieting your bodies instinct is to replace energy reserve (fat, protein and glucose), IE set point. Exercise is a great partitioning agent, IE putting the calories to use versus storage, so to go from a diet to maintenance without exercise (IE SD) be prepared for your body to do what it will naturally do, try and restore energy reserve first (naturally some of this will be fat, glucose and protein and what that mix is depends on a lot of things) but I would not SD if dieting or coming out of a diet.
 
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(Dan Moore @ Jun. 09 2006,09:54)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Just adding a thought here that one should consider.

After dieting your bodies instinct is to replace energy reserve (fat, protein and glucose), IE set point. Exercise is a great partitioning agent, IE putting the calories to use versus storage, so to go from a diet to maintenance without exercise (IE SD) be prepared for your body to do what it will naturally do, try and restore energy reserve first (naturally some of this will be fat, glucose and protein and what that mix is depends on a lot of things) but I would not SD if dieting or coming out of a diet.</div>
I just want to make sure I understand you...

When you say &quot;dieting&quot;, I am assuming you mean to lose weight/cutting. With that in mind, you're saying that when I SD (ie. don't exercise), my body then tries to store energy for later. But what if I am eating at maintenance? If it doesn't have the excess calories to store, then will it try to do so anyways? And if so, what is it sacrificing elsewhere to be able to store calories needed to fuel my daily activities?
 
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(deli_conker @ Jun. 09 2006,11:34)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">When you say &quot;dieting&quot;, I am assuming you mean to lose weight/cutting.  

With that in mind, you're saying that when I SD (ie. don't exercise), my body then tries to store energy for later.  But what if I am eating at maintenance?  

If it doesn't have the excess calories to store, then will it try to do so anyways?  And if so, what is it sacrificing elsewhere to be able to store calories needed to fuel my daily activities?</div>
I gonna put this as simply and as briefly as I can.

After a duration of caloric restriction your REE diminishes as a way to conserve stored energy (IE survival) and it takes a bit of time to readjust in the face of added energy. It is this lag time that contributes quite a bit to replenishment of energy stores.

It's not really sacrificing anything, your TEE is your REE plus AEE, (Total, Resting and Activity energy expenditure) so if your REE is lowered then so is your total, even though your AEE isn't.

As far as partitioning is concenred the largest common denominator is your BF levels to begin with and your BF levels as they change through the diet, mostly though your BF at the start. The more BF, the more adipose activity during restriction (IE energy withdrawal from that energy compartment or WKA partitioning). The inverse occurs when restriction is removed.

THis is why I say it may be better to not do an SD when coming out of a diet (caloric restriction) or to gradually increase your calories instead of jumping right back into maintenance or more energy consumption. The reasons for not SD'ing during Dieting is already explained elsewhere and is more related to the catabolic action of both not eating enoguh and not subjecting the muscle to any anabolic stimulus.
 
one main staple of my diet that i left out and i dont see mentioned much is water and lots of it.
i realize its probably considered a given, much like protien but its really made difference in my prog.
i used to think i drank plenty (if memory serves 8 cups daily is recommended? ?) but a few yrs back i tried to drink my normal daily amount while only taking it from a gallon container. results... i was at about 8-9 cups on gym days (i drink a bit while w/o) but woefully short on non w/o days. i certainly didnt feel any neg effects but tried to get in the habit of downing 1 to 1 1/2 gals of h2o daily. its not easy to get used to (especially at work) and it means many trips to the can but....

i was bulking at the time and immed. my wgt went up, (obviously water wgt but then again water does make up a signifigant portion of a healthy muscle tissue) and continued at a better rate than it had previous.

im not saying water is some kind of miracle for bulking and im pretty sure most folks are taking in a decent amount. but when i bulk now i try to concentrate on getting a lot of water to go along with a lot of food and when im successful (life sometimes gets in the way) i gain wgt/muscle at a better rate then with just the food aspect being covered.

anyone else had similar exp. or thoughts. i usually only drink water. im not a soda or tea drinker and only have about 4-5 cups of milk a day so its relatively easy(still dont like all those trips to the can) for me to get in that much water.
 
Dan:

I think I see what you're saying now. From my understanding, I should be okay. I started SD 12 days ago and will start the new HST cycle on Monday. I've kept with my calorie restriction throughout SD, so I haven't gained much in the way of fat. I was planning on starting to eat more these next few days before cycle though. If for no other reason than to get my stomach ready for the amounts of food to come.
 
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