1st Rep versus final Rep

navigator

New Member
Hi All,
It appears to me that there has long been a concensus in the BB world that when doing a set of reps, it is the final, most difficult rep that causes the adaptive response (growth). I have wondered: What about all the reps leading up to the final rep; aren't they beneficial too?

Now, I am running into strength & powerlifting guys who insist that the very first rep is the most productive. For this reason, these guys like performing very many sets having very few reps (2-3).

With that said, I am wondering if there is a concensus on this forum about this subject.

Thanks.
 
Dear navigator,

The first or last rep, which is the most productive? Or perhaps, the reps between the alpha and omega? We shall take productive here to mean "efficient for causation of muscle growth".

HIT advocates argue that the last rep must be the most productive because one is at their momentary weakest and thus, most growth is stimulated when blasting through that last rep because it is at that weakest moment that inroads are made into reserves, etc. We do know that training to failure may work half well for strength gains but not so good for any growth, if at all. And in the long-term, training to failure is a slow, painful plateau of non-growth, joint/soft-tissue strain and the need for ever increasing amounts of weight just to reach failure but for what....? Would this be efficient for causation of muscle growth? No. Not when research has shown that size can precede strength and should precede strength if hypertrophic specificity is the end one wishes to seek. Muscle eventually becomes resistant to growth stimulus, whatever increase in strength is largely neural, without any concomitant increase in size. Why lift humongous amounts of weights only for little growth? It is more efficient to lift lesser amounts of weights for the same or more growth. This is the dilemma of HIT. Strategic Deconditioning will re-sensitize the muscles to growth stimulus.

For those who argue the first rep is the most productive, again, we ask, productive in what context? Weightlifters, powerlifters and all such strength athletes are concerned with demonstration of strength. To date, there is no contest where they have to rep it out to get a medal. Theirs is but a question of rep maxes, and the person with the biggest lift (in single or by aggregate of different lifts) is the winner. And thus, they train for their event in such fashion - Max singles, multiple sets and long rest periods between sets. For them, it's the first rep that counts because each attempt (usually, competitions allows for 3 attempts per lift) allows for only one rep. Would such style of lifting be efficient for causation of muscle growth? No. Indeed, these guys do get big and strong as a consequence of their lifting, not so much due to their wanting to get big and strong. Their style of training is aimed at honing skill in lifting the most weight at one go. Furthermore, weightlifters build skill in lifting the weight in an efficient line of thrust, locking out at the joints, wearing lifting shirts and all such means of reducing mechanical load on muscles while hoisting large amounts of weight - all this is aimed at lifting more weight for less effort i.e. efficiency in lifting weights. It is not in any way efficient for causation of muscle growth.

The principles of HST are well elucidated in the FAQ and elsewhere on the HST site. It is not training to failure that promotes growth. It is not the first rep that elicits growth. In HST, there is no focus on any particular rep but instead, each and every rep has purpose and value as a means of eliciting mechanical stress, metabolite build-up etc. Thus, in HST, every rep counts and one would be prudent in making sure all reps are executed in good form.

To end, there is truth in saying that the in-between reps are beneficial. Without the first rep there cannot be the last, and without the last rep there cannot be the in-betweens. It is the harmonization of HST principles put forward so succinctly, eloquently yet scientifically that makes Bryan's brain-child a worthwhile piece of science, but more so, a work of art.

Godspeed, and happy HSTing :)
 
I'll take the liberty of hijacking this post, no that Dianabol seems to have answered everything and then some, about the original posters query..

To Dianabol:
You say that we now know that training to failure is only working half well for strength, and not much if at all for hypertrophy. What i wondered then was;

What will work best for only strength gains?
- HIt is the best i've ever used for this..

What will work best for growth?
- I expect you will say HST, but.. I can't say i've got HST to work much. possibly a little better than HIT for growth, worse for strength. (i realise it is not concerned with strength gains, just mentioning it)
 
Hi Dianabol,

Thanks very much for answering my question. And jkismul, I don't think your question has really hijacked this post; the question of strength is at the root of my original question.

Ultimately, I'm trying to figure out what is the most productive strength-building approach. I hear that HIT is supposed to be great for strength, but I don't really remember getting all that strong with HIT--got sick a lot, though.

Interesting thing about these powerlifting guys is that they aren't keen on working to failure, either. And, although I understand Dianabol's post, the fact is: these PL guys do hoist serious amounts of weight (fat lot more than I can). This is why my thoughts have been wondering in that direction.

Now, this leads me the following question (which I also posted in another post, entitled "density as it relates to hypertrophy, any takers?").

"So far we’ve been talking about any differences in hypertrophy that may result due to using X weight for either 1 set of 10 reps versus 10 sets of 1 rep. But what has been puzzling me is this: even though the volume of work is the same in both cases, the amount of weight that I can hoist is greater in the second case. In the first case, I would get 10 reps at about 75% of my 1RM. In the second case, however, I’d also get 10 reps, but at between say 90-95% of my 1RM (assuming I could even survive this, of course). Wouldn’t the second case cause more of the goodies to leak out of my muscle cells, and thus be far more beneficial to growth than the first case?"

I this question is also relevant here, with respect to possible strength gains.

Thanks much.
laugh.gif
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (jkismul @ July 19 2003,9:17)]What will work best for only strength gains?
- HIt is the best i've ever used for this..
HIT is not the best for strength, especially when taken to the 1set to failure pardigm.

Multiple sets, heavy weights and cycling of intensity (ie % 1rm) works about the absolute best for strength.
 
Bryan's view WRT growth is somewhere in the FAQ. Basically, each rep causes cumilitive damage to the fibres but fatigue does interfere with the damage as the fibres go into rigor and the cns works harder to compensate. SOOOO, the first reps are better! That's how I remember it anyway ;)
 
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