Managing fatigue/exercise tolerance- older HST'ers

Hardrock

New Member
Would like to hear from some of the older, experienced HST'ers (I'm 46) on managing fatigue. I'm new to HST,on my 3rd cycle of straight HST (full-body 3 X weekly) after laying off training for several years. I need to lose a good deal of bodyfat (290 lb, 36% BF) which means I need to do cardio along with the weights. I usually do cardio (treadmill walking 30-45 mins) in the a.m. and weights in the p.m. I'm finding that this causes fatigue problems. I hate to give up the cardio but I was wondering if I should go to an upperbody/lowerbody split 6 days a week and drop the cardio? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
 
Hardrock- Good to hear from another oldtimer! I've been doing 6x/week, push-pull splits, only 5 exercises per. Sounds like a lot, doing this every day but Sunday (or whenever), but keeping the number of lifts down to a minimum helps a lot, even when I get to the 5s, especially because I keep the volume similar. For example, 1set/15s, 2sets/10s, 2sets+drops/5s. Even with this, I still do cardio every day- crosstrain between ski machine and bicycling, about 45 minutes. I don't split up cardio and lifting on any given day- I'd end up spending too much time in shower
tounge.gif
- I lift first, then ski or ride.
I wonder if part of your fatigue may be psychological (it often is for most folks)- you're exercising twice a day, and this could have a negative impact on your mindset. Just a thought (I've been there, when I was doing several cycles of 2x/day, 6x/week, plus cardio. Ugh...)
Anyway, it would be good to see your routine- care to post?
Jake
 
Hey there Jake. Thanks for responding. My current cycle is standard 2 weeks ea of 1 x 15, 2 x 10, 3 x 5. Exercises are front squats, barbell rows, decline db press, db shoulder press, barbell curls, dips. This shouldn't be too much to handle but I do this routine without any wasted motion or time- 60 to 90 sec rest intervals, enough time to catch my breath between changing exercises. Takes about an hour. Calories are currently about maintenance at 3000 kcals with 45% carbs, 35% protein, 20%fat so I don't think diet is the problem.
 
I prefer to do the weights twice per day 3 days per week and do cardio/aerobic stuff on 3 other days. It helps me prepare mentally for either a weight day or aerobic day, and I haven't run into any fatigue problems. I'm 47. Good luck!
 
You may want to try cutting out the cardio on the days that you lift weights. If you are lifting 3 days/week then do cardio on your off days and see how that works. You could also try to cut your cardio back a little and do 20-30 minutes instead of 30-40.

Are you eating before you do your cardio in the morning? If not then try eating a little before your cardio. It is very detrimental to do cardio in the a.m. without eating first. Also maybe you need to up your food intake during the day. Eat more smaller meals throughout the day to keep your energy levels higher.

You could also try to switch the order and do your lifting in the morning and do cardio in the p.m. This could solve the eating in the morning problem as well. I find it easier to workout after eating than to do cardio.

Good luck.

Mike
 
hardrock

I am with crunch on this, drop the cardio during w/o days.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]It is very detrimental to do cardio in the a.m. without eating first. Also maybe you need to up your food intake during the day. Eat more smaller meals throughout the day to keep your energy levels higher.

Even though it is detrimental, it is the best to get the fat cells to release lipids so that the body can convert them to energy and use them.
wow.gif
It is dang difficult though
tounge.gif
I must admit. You may want to eat a few carbs staright afterwards just to recover.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Calories are currently about maintenance at 3000 kcals with 45% carbs, 35% protein, 20%fat so I don't think diet is the problem.

You may have to increase to slightly above maintenance as the fat level you put on was most likely due to lack of activity, if your carbs are low and you are feeling tired, then a slight increase may help.

Add some to your pre-workout meal and see!
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (leegee38 @ Aug. 13 2005,7:41)]I prefer to do the weights twice per day 3 days per week and do cardio/aerobic stuff on 3 other days. It helps me prepare mentally for either a weight day or aerobic day, and I haven't run into any fatigue problems. I'm 47. Good luck!
You have greater exercise tolerance than me- I've tried just doing cardio on off days but that only leaves 3 days of cardio and that's just not enough in the shape I'm in. thanks for the response.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Captain Crunch @ Aug. 13 2005,8:08)]You may want to try cutting out the cardio on the days that you lift weights. If you are lifting 3 days/week then do cardio on your off days and see how that works. You could also try to cut your cardio back a little and do 20-30 minutes instead of 30-40.
Are you eating before you do your cardio in the morning? If not then try eating a little before your cardio. It is very detrimental to do cardio in the a.m. without eating first. Also maybe you need to up your food intake during the day. Eat more smaller meals throughout the day to keep your energy levels higher.
You could also try to switch the order and do your lifting in the morning and do cardio in the p.m. This could solve the eating in the morning problem as well. I find it easier to workout after eating than to do cardio.
Good luck.
Mike
I need more cardio than just the off days. I do the cardio on an empty stomach but I'm not too sure that it really matters from personal experience. I read on some site that it's better to put 8 hrs between workouts and cardio done on workout days but it doesn't seem to help me. I've never tried weights a.m. cardio p.m. so that would be a shock to my system that could work. I generally only drink a Driver shake with no carbs before I workout- maybe I'll try adding a minimal amount of carbs to see if that makes a difference. thanks.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Fausto @ Aug. 14 2005,8:41)]hardrock
I am with crunch on this, drop the cardio during w/o days.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]It is very detrimental to do cardio in the a.m. without eating first. Also maybe you need to up your food intake during the day. Eat more smaller meals throughout the day to keep your energy levels higher.
Even though it is detrimental, it is the best to get the fat cells to release lipids so that the body can convert them to energy and use them.
wow.gif
It is dang difficult though
tounge.gif
I must admit. You may want to eat a few carbs staright afterwards just to recover.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Calories are currently about maintenance at 3000 kcals with 45% carbs, 35% protein, 20%fat so I don't think diet is the problem.
You may have to increase to slightly above maintenance as the fat level you put on was most likely due to lack of activity, if your carbs are low and you are feeling tired, then a slight increase may help.
Add some to your pre-workout meal and see!
If I drop the cardio then I'll have to go to a 6 day upper/lower split in order to get the exercise necessay to burn enough calories for BF loss. I'm eating 6X daily but you are right in that I might have to slightly increase calories (fat?) above maintenance in order to supply enough energy. thanks for the input.
 
naaa don't think you necessarily need to drop the cardio...
if you are new to hst and cutting these are a lot of stress factors...
don't go to high with the volume - regarding compounds as your main workout, then just add isolation work if you can really handle it...
do moderate cardio (no need to get a hard attack) 20-30 minutes AS OFTEN as possible - 3x per week is the absolute minimum at your bf lvl...6x would be better - if you are not used to cardio, this is very exhausting but after some weeks you will be fine and conditionned
doing cardio in the morning or post workout (before getting your pwo shake) is not a bad thing at all - when you're glycogen stores are depleted there is a higher chance your body will use fat as fuel when doing not to intense cardio...

don't do a 6x workout / week split - this is too much for a beginner...

3 x hst
3-6x cardio
good diet
enogh sleep

and you'll be fine
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Nemesis7884 @ Aug. 15 2005,3:13)]naaa don't think you necessarily need to drop the cardio...
if you are new to hst and cutting these are a lot of stress factors...
don't go to high with the volume - regarding compounds as your main workout, then just add isolation work if you can really handle it...
do moderate cardio (no need to get a hard attack) 20-30 minutes AS OFTEN as possible - 3x per week is the absolute minimum at your bf lvl...6x would be better - if you are not used to cardio, this is very exhausting but after some weeks you will be fine and conditionned
doing cardio in the morning or post workout (before getting your pwo shake) is not a bad thing at all - when you're glycogen stores are depleted there is a higher chance your body will use fat as fuel when doing not to intense cardio...
don't do a 6x workout / week split - this is too much for a beginner...
3 x hst
3-6x cardio
good diet
enogh sleep
and you'll be fine
thanks for the input. I really don't want to drop the cardio. I guess being out of shape and the weight gain (60 lbs in the last year) are harder on me than I realized. I never intended to get this out of shape (use to run 20-30 miles per week but that was 20 years ago). I'm realizing I'm just not that young anymore and it's hard to accept sometimes.
 
What? did someone just suggest carbs before mornin' cardio...
Harsh reality is you need to lose the fat(and free-up "waisted" energy); drastic action is necessary - kickstart this with a couple of days of PSMF(dropping cals to around 1200/day) keep up the cardio, but drop back to an abbreviated - SQ/BP/Row/Press - one set per workout.
See what this dude did - although he kept "fallin off the wagon" you get the idea
PSMF
Concentrate on fat loss first, unless you're down around 10-12%BF, whilst keeping the ol' LBM constant. Once your set point is reset at a lower BF%, then it's time to concentrate on LBM gain, as it's easier to gain FFM from/at this %
The key to losing is cal restriction, and it will be very hard but rewarding in the LONG RUN. (If you're really up for it - you could try the blond bombers' tuna & water "kickstart" diet for a couple of days; it'll seem easier after this)
Good luck & if you try any of the above, let us know how ya get on.
TDM
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (the_dark_master @ Aug. 16 2005,5:08)]What? did someone just suggest carbs before mornin' cardio...
Harsh reality is you need to lose the fat(and free-up "waisted" energy); drastic action is necessary - kickstart this with a couple of days of PSMF(dropping cals to around 1200/day) keep up the cardio, but drop back to an abbreviated - SQ/BP/Row/Press - one set per workout.
See what this dude did - although he kept "fallin off the wagon" you get the idea
PSMF
Concentrate on fat loss first, unless you're down around 10-12%BF, whilst keeping the ol' LBM constant. Once your set point is reset at a lower BF%, then it's time to concentrate on LBM gain, as it's easier to gain FFM from/at this %
The key to losing is cal restriction, and it will be very hard but rewarding in the LONG RUN. (If you're really up for it - you could try the blond bombers' tuna & water "kickstart" diet for a couple of days; it'll seem easier after this)
Good luck & if you try any of the above, let us know how ya get on.
TDM
I've read the thread on PSMF over at Bodyrecomposition but I'm not convinced yet on attempting it. Underneath all this blubber is a good deal of muscle that I've busted my @$$ in the gym to get and I don't want to burn even an ounce of it trying to perform HST on a hundred grams or so of protein, plus I've got to work too so I have to maintain some kind of energy level. Thanks for your input though.
 
Hardrock

IMO - you should carry on with cardio on off days, unless you put in a session in the morning during w/o days.

No eating before morning sessions and only the normal breakfast after a morning session.

Keep you HST program simple, seems you are eating correctly, so all you have to do now is preservere, the advice we are giving you enhance fat loss faster but you cannot expect unreasonable speedy fat loss, I can't remember what is the weekly/daily ration but it must be natural.

Another thing you can do is get some Cider vinegar caps or somethng like it to accelerate the fat loss, and...yah...train hard mate!

Preservere.
butbut.gif
you will see the metamorphosis!
thumbs-up.gif
 
Back
Top