GiNormousMonstertobe
New Member
Is there a realiable or semi-reliable way to measure or judge your potential gains in bodybuilding ? What type of gains one might expect based on some physical factors, initial progress, measurements, or bloodwork ?
Genetic Potential
- Thread starter GiNormousMonstertobe
- Start date
This is a great link and pretty accurate. Enjoy.
http://www.swt.bz/miscellaneous/references/maximum_measurements.htm
http://www.swt.bz/miscellaneous/references/maximum_measurements.htm
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imported_dkm1987
Guest
Zoomz, you don't remember where Bryan put the calculator developed from that formula do you?
I had it marked but I guess I deleted it from my bookmarks.
Anyway GINorm, Bryan took the Formula from the Butt's article Zommz is pointing to and the one from Sandow and incorporated it here into the site somewhere. Maybe somebody will remember where and point you to it.
I had it marked but I guess I deleted it from my bookmarks.
Anyway GINorm, Bryan took the Formula from the Butt's article Zommz is pointing to and the one from Sandow and incorporated it here into the site somewhere. Maybe somebody will remember where and point you to it.
precious_roy
New Member
Hmm, thats interesting. How accurate is it for you guys? Its not so much for me. It predicts my max genetic potential is 199. I peaked at 194 last cycle and I am not near done. I am gunning for 205 at the end of this cycle and at about 8.5% bf. Maybe my calculations were slightly off, or maybe I take my training waaaaay to seriously. I like to think that its the latter. 
Sorry wish I could help; I also remember seeing it but somehow didn't think it was this site. I've tried to re-do with the butt numbers in a spreadsheet and can't seem to get his results, maybe some math major can help if the original spreadsheet can't be found. I actually remeber having it and it was right on, perfect. Will keep looking maybe in one of my old backups.[b said:
He actually did my eqation for me. I fit his example except with the ankles measurments and BF%. My ankle was 9 (his was 8.7) & my BF is a bit higher, but I'm not going to be picky. His predictions put me at 184.something. That's pretty close. I'm 200lbs right now, but clean I hold steady between 180lbs and 190lbs depending on BF%.
That's interesting ... Nice post guys. Thanks for the link Zoomz.
That's interesting ... Nice post guys. Thanks for the link Zoomz.
Thanks for that, jww. I was too lazy to do all the calculations myself last night...
According to this thing, my max weight is 200.66 lbs, but at 8% I think that would be pretty good. I'm 196 at 13% or so right now I've got another 13 pounds of muscle to gain before I'm done. I always wanted to get up to 215, but I guess that isn't very feasibly naturally.
According to this thing, my max weight is 200.66 lbs, but at 8% I think that would be pretty good. I'm 196 at 13% or so right now I've got another 13 pounds of muscle to gain before I'm done. I always wanted to get up to 215, but I guess that isn't very feasibly naturally.
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imported_dkm1987
Guest
Totentanz, remember it's just a formula and in no way sets a true limit so you never know
I agree with this statement - it's best not to be too caught up with calculators. We all strive to break theoretical limits anyway.[b said:Quote[/b] (dkm1987 @ June 26 2005,11:40)]Totentanz, remember it's just a formula and in no way sets a true limit so you never know
I know a natural lifter who blew past estimated genetic limits by focusing on diet, training, etc. He didn't know HST per-se, but used a lot of the principles that are foundational to HST (overload, progression, and SD).
This is the only site I found; very similar to the spreadsheet; the neat part of this one is you can put in a target weight.
http://www.bblex.de/en/calc/prop.php
http://www.bblex.de/en/calc/prop.php
I have really small and dense bones, which I think is why the calculator gives me a lower potential weight than what I hoped for. My wrist is only 7 inches and I'm about 6'2, so you can kind of see... Anyway, I hope to attain the predictions laid out in this thing within a couple years, so we'll see. Steve Reeves was about my height and reached 215, but he had amazing genetics on his side... I'm still hopeful though.
GiNormousMonstertobe
New Member
Wow ! thanks guys,
I really did not expect to find much on this. This is 110% of what I was looking for.
Great Article with some real common sense and scientific method for a change. Even though it says something very similar to HST is 50 years old he does not claim it is invalid.
My right wrist is larger than my left. Perhaps I should find some more educational programming than the Playboy channel or maybe a hobby.
My potential turned out to be only 179 lbs, I am now 172 after about 7 months of lifting, 3 months wasn’t even with weights only one those band things that you trap in the door. I am probably about 12 % body fat, based on how fat I was last time I had it measured. I have gained only 12 pounds so far, 14 lbs more than I am now for ultimate potential seems pretty limited. I was not planning to use drugs. Looks like I better change my nickname. I read his comment on individual body parts, my neck is 1” larger than the estimate and it has never lifted anything except my head, while quite spectacular in function, I don’t think there is anything unusual about the weight of it. I think it might be from holding my head up while paddling a surfboard, I wish there was a way to catch everything else up.
He makes a really good argument that it is unlikely to go past others who were champions doing it for a living. I wonder if there is a mental aspect to it as well though ? In 1950, you are 5’10”, 195, “hey, I’m way bigger than anyone else I see, have reached the ideal for the time, continuing this freak show could loose me some movies, photo opps., comic book spots, whatever they had back then ? In other words, you think you have reached you potential or gotten where you want to be, why go further ?
One thing bothers me about his data. All the guys he uses to curve fit are 195 lbs or more for their contests. No data from longtime bodybuilders, if not champions, with wrists like 7” and ankles like 8.7” at 5’9” like his example. The curve appears to be fit to guys from 195 to 223, everything outside this looks to be an extrapolation, probably a valid one, but it would be nice to see some data, especially since his ideas are so insightful.
Any long-timers out there, drug free, with about wrists 7”, ankles 8.5”, 5’8” ?
Great Article with some real common sense and scientific method for a change. Even though it says something very similar to HST is 50 years old he does not claim it is invalid.
My right wrist is larger than my left. Perhaps I should find some more educational programming than the Playboy channel or maybe a hobby.
My potential turned out to be only 179 lbs, I am now 172 after about 7 months of lifting, 3 months wasn’t even with weights only one those band things that you trap in the door. I am probably about 12 % body fat, based on how fat I was last time I had it measured. I have gained only 12 pounds so far, 14 lbs more than I am now for ultimate potential seems pretty limited. I was not planning to use drugs. Looks like I better change my nickname. I read his comment on individual body parts, my neck is 1” larger than the estimate and it has never lifted anything except my head, while quite spectacular in function, I don’t think there is anything unusual about the weight of it. I think it might be from holding my head up while paddling a surfboard, I wish there was a way to catch everything else up.
He makes a really good argument that it is unlikely to go past others who were champions doing it for a living. I wonder if there is a mental aspect to it as well though ? In 1950, you are 5’10”, 195, “hey, I’m way bigger than anyone else I see, have reached the ideal for the time, continuing this freak show could loose me some movies, photo opps., comic book spots, whatever they had back then ? In other words, you think you have reached you potential or gotten where you want to be, why go further ?
One thing bothers me about his data. All the guys he uses to curve fit are 195 lbs or more for their contests. No data from longtime bodybuilders, if not champions, with wrists like 7” and ankles like 8.7” at 5’9” like his example. The curve appears to be fit to guys from 195 to 223, everything outside this looks to be an extrapolation, probably a valid one, but it would be nice to see some data, especially since his ideas are so insightful.
Any long-timers out there, drug free, with about wrists 7”, ankles 8.5”, 5’8” ?
I
imported_ectoman
Guest
Reeves may have had superior genetics, but we got 'The Bryan' on our side. Victory is ours!
I found some disparity with my measurements too. Almost all my measurements were about an inch smaller than my supposed potential, with the except of chest, which was about 9 inches smaller, and upper arms, which were about 2 inches smaller. My neck is huge, apparently, but I have a pretty big head. I attribute it to that.
Yes , I would fall into that category - 6.5" for wrist and 8.5 ankles at 68.5", everything for me is off right now just finished my first cycle after surgery and probably at 11% and weighing 164. I'm probably off 1/2-3/4" off everywhere, right now chest is 42 1/2" waist 32" biceps 15 1/4" quads 22 1/2" and calfs 15" - I should be able to put an inch on the above and not go over 166. Right now I'd like to see 170 by fall and under 10%. I'm sort of following something like O&G, 250-300 above maintenance but maybe a little more carbs, they average 293g/day on a 1 High 1 Low system. Sorry for the rambling, if this helps that's great.[b said:Quote[/b] (GiNormousMonstertobe @ June 26 2005,10:00)]Wow ! thanks guys,I really did not expect to find much on this. This is 110% of what I was looking for.
Great Article with some real common sense and scientific method for a change. Even though it says something very similar to HST is 50 years old he does not claim it is invalid.
My right wrist is larger than my left. Perhaps I should find some more educational programming than the Playboy channel or maybe a hobby.
My potential turned out to be only 179 lbs, I am now 172 after about 7 months of lifting, 3 months wasn’t even with weights only one those band things that you trap in the door. I am probably about 12 % body fat, based on how fat I was last time I had it measured. I have gained only 12 pounds so far, 14 lbs more than I am now for ultimate potential seems pretty limited. I was not planning to use drugs. Looks like I better change my nickname. I read his comment on individual body parts, my neck is 1” larger than the estimate and it has never lifted anything except my head, while quite spectacular in function, I don’t think there is anything unusual about the weight of it. I think it might be from holding my head up while paddling a surfboard, I wish there was a way to catch everything else up.
He makes a really good argument that it is unlikely to go past others who were champions doing it for a living. I wonder if there is a mental aspect to it as well though ? In 1950, you are 5’10”, 195, “hey, I’m way bigger than anyone else I see, have reached the ideal for the time, continuing this freak show could loose me some movies, photo opps., comic book spots, whatever they had back then ? In other words, you think you have reached you potential or gotten where you want to be, why go further ?
One thing bothers me about his data. All the guys he uses to curve fit are 195 lbs or more for their contests. No data from longtime bodybuilders, if not champions, with wrists like 7” and ankles like 8.7” at 5’9” like his example. The curve appears to be fit to guys from 195 to 223, everything outside this looks to be an extrapolation, probably a valid one, but it would be nice to see some data, especially since his ideas are so insightful.
Any long-timers out there, drug free, with about wrists 7”, ankles 8.5”, 5’8” ?
OneMoreRep
New Member
i hope those aren't set in stone... i have small joints...
OneMoreRep
New Member
they can't be all right... ROUGH generalization at best.... my ankle is barely 8.25 and my quads are 24 mind u at 10-12 % bf... but still... i've only just turned 20.
GiNormousMonstertobe
New Member
Zoomz,
That is what I am looking for.
I am similar in size potential according to Butt's article, 68, 7, 8.5". So I am looking for what I can reasonably expect to see. If you don't mind sharing the following.
How long have you been bodybuilding ?
What are your all time bests for those measurements so far as far as you know ?
For diet, I have heard so many contradictory things that I am just consuming as much as I possibly can without throwing up (about 4000 to 5000 calories per day) with the highest amount of protein that is reasonable, probably about 2 to 3 g per pound. I rely heavily on the protein powders and mix with only a little milk, the one I use claims to have something which helps digestion and it feels like it does. Hard to believe there is a true marketing claim but that is my experience. Strangely all that food does not seem to be making me that much bigger or fatter.
That is what I am looking for.
I am similar in size potential according to Butt's article, 68, 7, 8.5". So I am looking for what I can reasonably expect to see. If you don't mind sharing the following.
How long have you been bodybuilding ?
What are your all time bests for those measurements so far as far as you know ?
For diet, I have heard so many contradictory things that I am just consuming as much as I possibly can without throwing up (about 4000 to 5000 calories per day) with the highest amount of protein that is reasonable, probably about 2 to 3 g per pound. I rely heavily on the protein powders and mix with only a little milk, the one I use claims to have something which helps digestion and it feels like it does. Hard to believe there is a true marketing claim but that is my experience. Strangely all that food does not seem to be making me that much bigger or fatter.